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The New Forums

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This has gone off the rails. But to be honest what do you expect to happen when you lock people away from the world for 14+ months and then drastically change one of their favorite pastimes.

I think another thread needs to be opened where items of concern, bugs, or questions can be conveyed in a direct format. Another thread should be made for helping people find their way in the new forum as well as modifying the look and format of what they are seeing.

This.
We already all know how unsavory this ""upgrade"" is. What needs to be discussed is how to fix it. Concrete stuff like "make the margins at left and right a reasonable size, perhaps 10px or 20px", "fix the log-in functionality and other essential functionality so it no longer requires Javascript", or "remove the Twitter and Facebook buttons"; not "aaaaaa everything is ugly and my life is ruined!"
(Also, did anyone else have their avatar image eaten?)
 
What needs to be discussed is how to fix it. Concrete stuff like "make the margins at left and right a reasonable size, perhaps 10px or 20px", "fix the log-in functionality and other essential functionality so it no longer requires Javascript", or "remove the Twitter and Facebook buttons"; not "aaaaaa everything is ugly and my life is ruined!"

Definitely. The childish whining and complaining won't get anything accomplished.

Personally, here's what I thing should be done (I know others have already said some of this):

1: Fix the log-in to where it doesn't use Javascript.

2: Make members' locations visible from a post again, so you don't have to go over to their profile just to see it.

3: A new theme that resembles the old one (with slightly larger fonts than what's currently being used).


That's about all for me really. The Facebook and twitter buttons could go as well, though I don't think that's as important as the stuff mentioned above.


It's a real shame some people haven't remained civil here. There's no reason for it. Sure, it's a big change and it needs some work, but what good is throwing a fit gonna do? Nothing. At the end of the day, the forum is still here, and I'm grateful for that.

Oh, and I'm typing this from my Dell Inspiron 4150 (running Windows XP SP3), which I was successfully able to log-on from with Firefox 52!
 
Yeah my avatar disappeared, but I fixed it. It was discussed further back in this thread, but basically the avatar showed in my profile next to recent posts, so I saved it to my computer. Then I blew up the size to 80x80 (the max allowed) and made that my new avatar. Your old avatar was most likely chosen from the internal list kept on the server, but that option was lost in the upgrade.

EDIT: oh i see, your avatar is just gone completely. Guess you'll just have to upload a new one.
 
I think this is related to the "mark as read". I'm using the new post, but once I read something and back to that new post page, the subject is gone. My style is to read new stuff and then go back to possibly make a reply. The post I just read has been removed from the list.
What can be done about this. It makes things really difficult. Some times, I have to leave the computer to deal with the family or something else. The post is no longer there.
Also, as was noted by others. I find I need to go back to the first search page to keep track of what has and hasn't been looked at. Surely, there is a better way to mark where one left off.
Thanks for the efforts.
Dwight
 
Please! Can someone repair the PM system? I'm getting a notification in my inbox with a single line of text from the original sent message, but when I go to my inbox, no content appears--essentially a blank message bearing the sender's name and nothing more.

This is not good! Pretty formatting might really delight some folks, but when you can't even see what was written, it's useless.
 
Please! Can someone repair the PM system? I'm getting a notification in my inbox with a single line of text from the original sent message, but when I go to my inbox, no content appears--essentially a blank message bearing the sender's name and nothing more.

This is not good! Pretty formatting might really delight some folks, but when you can't even see what was written, it's useless.

Chuck,

Is your inbox capturing all your new messages? I am missing quite a few actually.
 
All ... Yes, in the interest of full disclosure, I work at Google. That is not a secret - go look me up on LinkedIn. I've also worked at IBM, Hitachi GST, and Western Digital. It's been a long and fruitful career. I post here (and everywhere) using my real name.

You should not do that in a public forum where participation via anonymous aliasing is not only allowed but customary. The playing field is not level and the fact that you are moderating this forum in your real persona capacity while the great majority of participants are here in an anonymous capacity leads to a clash in expected etiquette and to ruffled feathers and to summarily bans. That makes for a not pleasant environment. I'm not saying that is your fault (it isn't), but that is the way human nature works in general.

I'm still waiting for a sign of acknowledgement about what is already an overwhelming opinion of this forum's users: cancel the Facebook and Twitter buttons. I respectfully demand an explanation of WHY that is not being done. I don't intend to remain in this forum if those buttons remain. By the way, I am not asking you to "liberate" me, thank you very much.
 
Chuck,

Is your inbox capturing all your new messages? I am missing quite a few actually.

Hard to say, but messages come without body, in spite of what the email notification says. The PM system is truly a mess. I may set up a temporary email account for people to PM me while this gets straightened out.
 
"a public forum where participation via anonymous aliasing is not only allowed but customary."

great point to bring up

'nicks' should be BANNED here
Can't stop at that, unless you wanna settle for total anarchy. Full addresses and zip codes in the 'Location' field should also be mandatory. Plus a scan of your ID, driver's license, and links to your bank, police, employment and medical records (all to be made publicly visible, naturally). And at least enough real photos of yourself and your family for a minimal machine-learning setup to deep-fake a nasty video or two (this WILL be tested).

We'll march bravely onwards. Privacy's dead, get with the times you luddites.
 
You should not do that in a public forum where participation via anonymous aliasing is not only allowed but customary. The playing field is not level and the fact that you are moderating this forum in your real persona capacity while the great majority of participants are here in an anonymous capacity leads to a clash in expected etiquette and to ruffled feathers and to summarily bans. That makes for a not pleasant environment. I'm not saying that is your fault (it isn't), but that is the way human nature works in general.

I'm still waiting for a sign of acknowledgement about what is already an overwhelming opinion of this forum's users: cancel the Facebook and Twitter buttons. I respectfully demand an explanation of WHY that is not being done. I don't intend to remain in this forum if those buttons remain. By the way, I am not asking you to "liberate" me, thank you very much.

Regarding nicks vs. names: I'm user number 23 here. I don't think the 22 people before me decided on what was customary. I was a user long before I was a moderator.

Regarding forum upgrades: You (and many others) are addressing your ire at the wrong person. Respectfully, you can demand a piece of chocolate cake if you want in addition to the explanation. I am not involved in this forum upgrade; I've pitched in some things but in general the upgrade was handled by others. Your complaints are being read and at some point they may be addressed, but I don't have any insight into how or when - that is up to them.
 
Can't stop at that, unless you wanna settle for total anarchy. Full addresses and zip codes in the 'Location' field should also be mandatory. Plus a scan of your ID, driver's license, and links to your bank, police, employment and medical records (all to be made publicly visible, naturally). And at least enough real photos of yourself and your family for a minimal machine-learning setup to deep-fake a nasty video or two (this WILL be tested).

We'll march bravely onwards. Privacy's dead, get with the times you luddites.

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about here. Nobody is insisting in anything other than a handle or a nickname. People can use their real names if they choose to.

Our move to HTTPS actually enhances privacy.
 
Please! Can someone repair the PM system? I'm getting a notification in my inbox with a single line of text from the original sent message, but when I go to my inbox, no content appears--essentially a blank message bearing the sender's name and nothing more.

This is not good! Pretty formatting might really delight some folks, but when you can't even see what was written, it's useless.

Chuck,

Private messages are working for other people. If you are having a problem then some basic information about your browser and what you have already tried would be helpful. Also perhaps a screenshot of the problem.

This is probably an issue specific to your choice of browser, extension, ad-blockers or whatever. Do the usual - try a "private browsing" window with extensions turned off, try an alternate browser, etc. The only real issue I know of is that older browers can't use the login box because of the god-forsaken Javascript.

Also, I'd start a new thread under "Vintage Computer Forum Support" for your specific problem. This thread is basically useless because of all of the off topic ranting.
 
Our move to HTTPS actually enhances privacy.

This gets often repeated, but I never really see anyone saying how it enhances security. There are a two major ways it does this.

Firstly it acts as a digital signature for the webserver/domain of the forums, no one else can forge the certificate, so as long as you know the URL is correct, and there are no cert errors, then you know for a fact you are in the right place and can confidently enter your username and password.

The second way it keeps us all secure is that it encrypts the data between you and the site in flight, so no one can peek in and spy on your traffic. Don't care about this? Sure, I get that, but know also that your username and password is passed over to the site *EVERY* time you load a page or go to a new page on the site. The login cookie you have for the site does this. And if that was not encrypted, then anyone out there on the internet could capture the packets going into the server and it would be trivial for someone to automate the collection of usernames and passwords. And since quite a few people re-use usernames and passwords, this list could gain the perpetrator access to secondary sites (your banking password is different from the password here isn't it????). Now you can get into a massive debate about how likely this is to happen, and I would admit it is probably on the unlikely end of the scale, but it is super easy to implement SSL, why wouldn't you? Also, those cookies are encrypted when you use them with an SSL site, so your username and password is held pretty secure from end to end when using the site.

If you really want to use this site without SSL, then just setup a proxy on your network that strips the SSL from it once it gets to your gateway, and then go nuts with your ancient browsers, but make damn sure you trust whatever is on your network to not be harvesting data and send it back to someone command and control server...
 
Regarding privacy and security ...

You missed another point too - it keeps ISPs and cell phone providers from examining your traffic and modifying their behavior based on that traffic. For example, if your cell phone provider is Verizon it keeps them from modifying http headers, downsampling images, or just in general looking for keywords. Your connections to the sites you visit should never be scanned by your ISP or cell phone provider.

It has happened in the past: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh
 
I'm not quite sure what you are talking about here. Nobody is insisting in anything other than a handle or a nickname. People can use their real names if they choose to.

Our move to HTTPS actually enhances privacy.
Sure, I have no problems with the forum's privacy policy (nor with HTTPS for that matter, since I don't personally think that vintage browser support should be a top priority when maintaining a live site). The suggestion that "nicks should be banned" however was something else.
 
but it is super easy to implement SSL, why wouldn't you?

As someone who has been implementing SSL since more than a decade ago, I tell you it is not super easy.

I first had my SSL web site fail SSL because 1024 bit RSA keys were deprecated. Then, because MD5 hashes were deprecated. Then, because protocol SSL 2 was deprecated. Then, because protocol SSL 3 was deprecated. Then, because SHA-1 hashes were deprecated. Then, because protocol TLS 1.0 was deprecated. And, lastly, because having the name in CN was deprecated and it had to be also in the Subject Alternative Name "optional" field. What confidence do I have that SSL will not break my web site next month?, NONE.

So no, SSL is NOT super easy. But it takes experience to know that it is fragile, ever changing, and a moving target. HTTP is super easy. HTTPS, not so much.

Having said that, I do support going HTTPS, provided TLS 1.0 is kept around for compatibility purposes. If TLS 1.2 or higher is mandated, in a retro themed forum, it's going to suck big.
 
PM's don't work for me reliably either. Half the time others can't see what I typed, and half the time I can't see their message.

No ad blockers installed.

Microsoft Edge (newest version based on Chromium).
 
As someone who has been implementing SSL since more than a decade ago, I tell you it is not super easy.

I first had my SSL web site fail SSL because 1024 bit RSA keys were deprecated. Then, because MD5 hashes were deprecated. Then, because protocol SSL 2 was deprecated. Then, because protocol SSL 3 was deprecated. Then, because SHA-1 hashes were deprecated. Then, because protocol TLS 1.0 was deprecated. And, lastly, because having the name in CN was deprecated and it had to be also in the Subject Alternative Name "optional" field. What confidence do I have that SSL will not break my web site next month?, NONE.

So no, SSL is NOT super easy. But it takes experience to know that it is fragile, ever changing, and a moving target. HTTP is super easy. HTTPS, not so much.

Having said that, I do support going HTTPS, provided TLS 1.0 is kept around for compatibility purposes. If TLS 1.2 or higher is mandated, in a retro themed forum, it's going to suck big.

I have implemented my fair share of SSL and certificates, in more places than just websites, and have always found it to be pretty straight forward, with only minor issues coming up in more complex setups. The deprication of those techs has always been phased in, and any issued certs are usually fully trusted until they expire, so you should have every confidence that they will work until they expire, this has been my experience with certs over the last decade. Now if you are getting your certs from a fly by night, unreputable CA, or a CA that wantomly violates the agreed rules and what not (cough, cough, Symantec), well that's a different story entirely.

With regards to TLS 1.0, that should not be kept around at all. It is trivial to break into a TLS 1.0 stream, and this is why is has been nearly completely deprecated. You cannot even get a cert now that will support it, at least not from any reputable provider. Oh, and for the record, the current cert on this site only supports TLS 1.2 and 1.3, it does not support TLS1.0 or 1.1.
 
Regarding privacy and security ...

You missed another point too - it keeps ISPs and cell phone providers from examining your traffic and modifying their behavior based on that traffic. For example, if your cell phone provider is Verizon it keeps them from modifying http headers, downsampling images, or just in general looking for keywords. Your connections to the sites you visit should never be scanned by your ISP or cell phone provider.

It has happened in the past: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh

Yes, that is a good one, though given that your ISP is harvesting meta data from you, they can infer what you are doing, even if they cannot see into the traffic. If you truly want to cut them out of the loop, then use a VPN. Most ISPs sell that meta data to the highest bidder too.
 
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