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Unable to use MFM drive in a 5150??

R

redruM69

Experienced Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
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Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
I have a Model 5150 Im trying to turn into a web server. The server works running off a floppy, but would like to run off a HD before DIGG'ing it.

As soon as I try to format a drive in the WD format utility (debug c=g800:5), I get "Error---completion code 01", and it quits to DOS

I have tried with 3 different controllers and 2 drives, and all sorts of different jumper and terminator configs..

What is going on here?

BIOS date is 10/19/81, and I read that it wont support BOOTING to a HD, but it should still work as a storage drive if I boot from a floppy, right?
 
I don't think that it will be able to run from the HD. The problem is the BIOS. That version of the BIOS does not scan the memory above 640K for BIOS extensions, and therefore does not give the BIOS extensions a chance to install. Without BIOS support, you need software drivers to talk to the drive. And of course, you don't have those ...

(It is similiar to using a SCSI drive on a SCSI card with no BIOS. You can still do it, but you need the ASPI drivers.)

The format routine is probably failiing very quickly because on an XT class hard disk controller the BIOS actually implements the low level format. And since the hard disk controller BIOS is not installed, the format program can't make a successful call to it.

On another note ... not too sure that a 5150 running a web server is new news for DIGG. There are C64s and other machines out there doing it.

That being said, that BIOS version is relatively uncommon - don't do anything bad to it. It also has a cute bug where it only counts up to 544KB, even if you have more memory installed.
 
So is there is no way to get a software level driver to force the card to load? BTW, the controllers I have are 2x WD1002S-WX2's, and a WD1002A-WX1.

Anybody want to trade a newer revision bios board for this one? :)
 
That board is rare enough that you could sell it as a collector's item for $200 easy and then buy yourself two or three later model 5150s with the cash :)
 
Wow - that left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

You had a vintage machine. Not just any vintage machine, but a 5150 with the 2nd revision BIOS. A pretty rare version too, and you only found out because people here helped you. You could have used a SCSI card with software drivers or even gotten a different 5150 for your project. But you cut the motherboard out of it to sell on eBay ? I'm kind of shocked. I'd not have done that, and I'm kind of saddened that you did.

But it's your property .. do what you want with it.
 
Please atleast use Mbbrutman's utility and make an image of the BIOS, if it hasn't already been done...

As much as I like using eBay to purchase things, I use it because other people don't know how to KEEP their vintage stuff.. So, please don't sell it and appreciate for what it is...

Otherwise, sell it to a member HERE that knows how to manage it, and care for the machine. (that sounded weird)
 
oh, ok, so the BIOS is widely available...

I hope someone from here wins the board though.. :( I don't want to see that board in the wrong hands...
 
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Yeah, well, like Mike said, it's his property and we'll see just what it goes for.

As someone said in another thread, some systems go for a lot more as parts than they do as a functioning machine and there are a lot of money-hungry people out there that have no compunction at all in carving up a perfectly well working machine for the money.

I go out of my way to put systems back together again, as close to their original state as I can so someone can HAVE that well working machine, so, I can't really get into that mindset at all.

Granted, I will carve up a well-working un-branded clone and part it out, but, I've never seen a Vintage white box clone in anyone's collection.
 
No, I wouldn't say that that BIOS is widely available. But I don't know whether by my definition that I would say it was rare either. Coincidently, a 5150 with that BIOS revision sold on eBay last month for $67. On eBay I picked up a board with that BIOS on it about a year ago for about $20 (only bidder). And remember that eBay isn't the only place where people sell old computers. They are there, I guess on average about every six months, if you seek.

But the vast majority of the 16-64K boards that I've seen or queried about had their BIOS upgraded to the third revision. I presume that that was mostly because people wanted to add a hard drive to their computer.

The first 5150 BIOS, now that's definitely rare. Anyone got one?

(BTW: I don't want this post to be a trigger for a discussion of the definition of 'rare')
 
mbbrutman said:
Wow - that left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

You had a vintage machine. Not just any vintage machine, but a 5150 with the 2nd revision BIOS. A pretty rare version too, and you only found out because people here helped you. You could have used a SCSI card with software drivers or even gotten a different 5150 for your project. But you cut the motherboard out of it to sell on eBay ? I'm kind of shocked. I'd not have done that, and I'm kind of saddened that you did.

But it's your property .. do what you want with it.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that I will be finding ANOTHER Rev. 3 board, and will continue with the project. Also, AFAIK, the motherboard isnt "branded" to this specific case.. there are no "Matching numbers" like an engine in a car.. Correct me if Im wrong.
Not sure what you mean by "Cut the motherboard out"... I didnt damage anything, and it can go straight back into the case if needed.

Anyway, if my info is correct, and the board isnt branded to a particular case number, what does it matter if I separate the 2? :confused:





EDIT: If you inform me that in fact there IS a matched pair of numbers for the mobo, and the case, then I will remount it, clean it up, get it bootable, and sell it complete.
 
It does seem a shame to break up an 'early' system. The early ones had a slightly different case with only 2 screws on the back and black PSU. Most of the components in a system are dated, you can tell the week and year they were produced. Look for things like 2383 (23rd week of 1983) in white paint. Cases have ink stamps on both the inside of the cover, and front panel. RAM is also marked in a similar way.

You should reassemble it, sell it whole, then buy a later 5150 of which there are lots :)

A 5150 webserver is nothing new... there was one up and running recently, although I lost the URL now. I'm sure it was on Digg about a year ago. There was also one hosted on an Apple Lisa :)

IMHO saying "All-original 1981 BIOS 5150" is way cooler than saying "IBM 5150 webserver" ;)

Does anyone actually have a first-revision BIOS 5150? Erik?
 
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Alright guys..
I'll think about it tonight, and may put it all together tommorow and sell as a whole...
It only has one floppy drive, and its missing the cover for the other bay.. CGA card.. It also has 2 AST SuperSixPack memory expansion cards, but I kinda wanna keep those.
Anybody want to make any pre-offers on it, reassembled and booting?
I'll get more pics tommorow
 
Ok, so there are no matching serial numbers, and you didn't have to use a torch to get the motherboard out. I think you are missing the entire point.

You broke apart a working system to part it out. A very old and relatively uncommon working system. In my eyes and in the context of vintage computing, that is sin. Especially since it isn't a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, and you had other options.

Any time you remove a motherboard or components from a case you bend them, possibly stressing them. Did you bother to wear a static strap as you tore the machine apart? (I'm betting not, but it's not like we can prove that one way or another.)

You've got three bids on that motherboard on eBay now. What are you doing to do, cancel the auction and say you lost the motherboard?

Did it occur to you to offer it to people here first? People who are actually interested in preserving vintage computers?
 
As was mentioned on this thread, the early 5150's with the 16-64kb motherboard have cases with only two screwholes holding the cover on, verses the later 5150s with five screwholes. They also have black finished power supplies intsead of chrome finished ones in the later ("B" revision) 5150s.

That's why you should not seperate these three parts (case, power supply and MB) in an early, 16-64kb model; in the sense that they all go together.

The original poster might not know, but all the 5150's with the 64-256K motherboard have a "B" inside of a circle, stamped in white ink, on the back of the case. This is the fastest way to identify if a 5150 is a 16-64k or 64-256 model.

I'm surprised no one has told the original poster that there is a BIOS chip upgrade that IBM made to upgrade the 16-64k motherboards to the BIOS on the 64-256k boards. If he replaces the BIOS chip, it will have the BIOS functionality of the 64-256k boards including hard drive booting.

I saw one offered on Ebay just a week or two ago, in the "Buy It Now" section. It was listed with the original IBM part #. I think it was only about $15 or so.

The only disadvantage will be if he wants 640K of RAM, its harder to find an add-on card that supplies 576K of RAM since his motherboard only has 64k on it. The common AST SixPak Plus only supplies 384K additional RAM and was intended for the more common 256k boards.

(We regulars on the board already know most of this, but the original poster might not.)
 
there went the bids! I see it has already been cancelled. Thanks for doing the right thing!:mrgreen:
 
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