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[HELP] Need to find a Specific Type of Tape Drive

John Draugr

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
68
Location
Yonkers, NY
Ok... I don't want to talk your ears off, so I'm going to try and not get sentimental and go on and on about my days as a PC BBS sysop.

Let me just give you the quick end of it.

NOTE: As always... I kept typing and BINGO long message. You can skip the next bit and go to the bottom where you will see [QUESTION]. That is the main question I need to ask and hopefully someone here can help.

I am working on building a 10 node Telnet BBS geared towards vintage Systems. My BBS will offer support for Vintage PC systems, Commodore 8-bit, Amiga, Atari 8-Bit, Atari ST, and more. Each section would appear to be its own separate BBS, even though it is really all one large BBS broken and separated into sub systems. Anyway, one idea I had from the beginning was to be able to have an option upon initially logging in that would offer the caller the ability to visit "The Disc Master's Domain BBS" as it was in the early 90s. Menus, access levels, filebases, etc... I searched on my old hard drives, and never found the lost archives. That was until today!

I just found an old Practical Peripherals 14400 FX SA V.32 modem box. I pulled it from the storage heap and thought it felt heavy. I opened it up and could not believe my eyes. Within the box was not the modem, but about 20 large tapes from my old Maynard Tape Drive (Drive is long gone). On a few of the tapes I found the following titles "286/16 File Server: 01 for BBS Tape 1, 2 and 3. Then I felt my heart stop. I held in my hand the last tape in the box. The title was "386/40 Main BBS Wildcat Main Files" I couldn't believe it! After all these years I hold in my hands the last remaining archive of my BBS. Each of these tapes held 120MB I believe. That means not only do I have 120mb of my original BBS menus, Main BBS program, and game doors, but also 3 more tapes full of my old file database. This is exactly what I've been looking for. As for the other 17 tapes.... Well, lets say they were filled with *cough* warez *cough*. Nothing that would be that interesting today as most of it is findable as abandonware on the Internet. It was bascially backups of all the elite files I pulled off other BBSes back in the early 90s. Especially my friend John Flint's BBS "Rascal's Computer Haven"! :)

Continuing... There was also one more exciting thought that came to my mind. Way back in the early 90s There was this BBS Door that I downloaded off of another BBS, this was way before the Internet. The door was a beta and only featured the first 2 levels I believe. It was the first Multiplayer Fantasy game with graphics that I ever saw. You had to execute a client side copy of the game to play over the BBS, sort of like Land of Devestation. Anyhow, my brother and I would play together through my BBS over my Lantastic BNC 2mb...YES I said 2mb network. LOL Back to the story... The game had tile graphics that were a tad nicer than the graphics in Ultima IV or V, at least from what I remember. The game was really neat, but alas when the BBS was brought down for good in 1995, I lost that game and thought it to be lost forever. I've searched for countless hours over the years, trying to find the game on the Internet. I've spoken with Doug over at BBSFiles.com, and he, nor anyone on his forums knew the game I spoke of. (Side Note: Doug is the central point for Sysops who wish to obtain old and new BBS doors for their boards. Doug and his site are great resources!) Anyway, could I have been one of the few people who ever saw that game door? I never thought I'd see it again, until now! There is a good chance that not only are my old BBS files on these tapes, but the long lost D&D type graphical multiplayer door game might also be backed up on that 386/40 Main BBS tape.

So...... This is my question, and one I hope someone might be able to help me with.

[QUESTION]

I no longer have the tape drive, but I have the tapes. Now I need to know what tape drive model I need to try and hunt down on eBay so that I can hook the drive up to my 486 and pull the data off these tapes and put them on my new BBS and onto CD-R or DVD-R for further archiving. I'm going to give the only info I have and hopefully someone here might know what model I need to look for.

A few of the tapes are 3M DC 600HC tapes. These are bigger than the small Colorado 250mb tapes that were popular in the mid 90s. I believe these tapes are actually from the 80s.

Another tape has a SunOS label and says :

4.1 Sun 4c SUNBIN
1/4" Tape (boot format) QIC 24
Part Number: 700-2521-10 Rev:A

I hope this information might be sufficient in determining what tape drive I need.

Well, I wait anxiously in hopes that someone will respond with some good info.

Sorry for rambling about my story above. :)

Thanks
John

PS: If anyone knows what tape drive type I need and might have a spare to sell (cheaply) or even loan just so I can pull the data off the tape and then burn the data to DVD, I'd appreciate it. I'm currently out of work, so I don't have too much money to toss about, but I am very interested in being able to pull this data from the tapes. They were stored in their original protective hard plastic cases and were then within the modem box in a dry cool storage area. I hope the data is STILL good. Knowing my luck everything will be good except the Main BBS tape. LOL
 
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Crapola! I just found my old Maynard Mainstreem manual and disks. The manual says it is for the MainStreem card. Now that I recall the tape drive I had also had its own 16 bit ISA controller card. Crap! I hope someone might know what card I'll need too.

It's been so long since I had that tape drive, I barely remember what it looked like. I do recall that one day when I tossed all that old equipment out as well as two or three boxes full of original disks and games. As I dumped the last of the disks in the trash outside my home, I said to myself "You're going to regret this moron!" Boy do I ever!

John
 
http://www.access-one.com/rjn/computer/hcdvsqic.txt

Link is a lot to read. Basically, it says your tape drive was a 16 track job that used "HCD-16" format. Also says, put that tape in a QIC drive and kiss it goodbye. Tape is preformatted and can not be formatted in the field. Just need to find a tape drive that supports 67MB HCD-16 tape format (ya, right).
 
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=257

Find someone who owns a HP 9144A tape drive and you are all set. Well, close anyway. I have a HP 85 but I will have to look up what "cs/80" command format is. Might need a ROM I don't have that supports that format. And, there is the small matter of finding the tape drive in the first place.

Wow, *only* $678.97 BIN on ebay, yum. He's got 4 of them at that price too, chuckle.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Agilent-HP-9144A-Cartridge-Tape-Drive-With-Power-Cord_W0QQitemZ320151376203QQihZ011QQcategoryZ51090QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

That one is "just" 99.99, of course, doesn't say if it works or not.
 
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Thanks for the info. As for the issue about not being able to format them. That doesn't sound correct as I formatted all the tapes when I got them from John Flint. I wish I still spoke with John, but he has dissapeared years ago. I have no clue where he is now. He'd probably remember the tape drive he sold me and what model it was.

Anyhow, thanks again for the info, I'll try to hunt one down. As for that guy on eBay..... Forget about it! LOL
 
Oh, you DID format them. What that means is we are back to square one as far as what tape drive it was. We really don't know if it used that HC format or not. If it totally redid the formatting, then the drive didn't use the HC stuff at all. You could have used a 600A with the same result. If it's super important, you are probably looking at getting an estimate from a data recovery service. Just not enough info to figure this one out.

Well - guess you could look into that "qic 24" thing. If the other tape was really just reformatted to the qic 24 format, then you could look for drives that supported that format. Likely around 1200 or so of those.
 
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MS60 60MB QIC-02 CASSETTE Tape drives. (Maynard MS60 )
MS60Q 60MB QIC-02 Tape drives. (Maynard MS60Q )

Could have been one of those!
 
Chuck,

The old drive I had was a Maynard. I know thye made many drives, but the least I know was that it was a Maynard, although Mountain also sounds familiar. I may have actually gone through 2 drives back then. One had the word Mountain in it's title. The other was definitely Maynard. Then again, it might have been a Mountain something made by Maynard. LOL

Thanks for the extra info. I'm going to keep hunting for the equipment.


Terry,

thanks for the offer, but I honestly don't know if that card is related or compatible with the old Maynard drive I had. If I find out any further info, and it is compatible, I'll et you know.

Thanks again guys for the help.

John
 
Really sounds like "data recovery service" time to me. They will be able to handle qic 24 tapes as if they were 1.44MB diskettes, that format was so common.
 
data recovery service is probably going to be too expensive. One thing I thought of a few moments ago was this. The tapes that were given to me to use were originally for SunOS with official SUN labels. When I was given them they were blank, so the original data was gone. I'm wondering if the Qic-24 format was part of Sun's method of formatting the tapes. The 3M tapes don't mention Qic- anything. I also did some research on Mountain and found some info. I did a search on eBay and found this one guy who has quite a few tape drives that range from $30 - $200+ Quite a few of them looked to support my sized tapes. I know that doesn't necessarily mean my format, but alas they seemed to use the same physical tapes. All of those drives mention QIC-2 and none said QIC-24, so I wonder if I actually used QIC-2 and not 24. I'm going to read that Maynard manual I have and see what format that board was compatible with. If it says QIC-2 and doesn't mention 24, then there is a good chance the tapes were originally produced by SUN at 24, but when I got them I used the common QIC-2.

Well, thanks again for helping out with any info you can think of. I truly appreciate all the responses. I'll post again if I find any good info in that Maynard manual.

John
 
Well, the model number on a Maynard board that you stuck in the computer was qic-02. I never studied all those "quater inch cassette" formats anyway. I know I got really sick of waiting 3 hours for my backup to finish, only to have it get an error about 2 hours into it. I don't miss those travan and qic tapes one bit.
 
I did look through the Maynard manual that I have and it does not mention QIC at all. I'm not saying that it isn't QIC as it most definitely was, it's just that the manual doesn't mention QIC or what version it used, so I don't know what exact format of QIC it used. It was probably 2.

I wonder if I should post in the marketplace under Wanted Items. Perhaps someone here might have a spare or be willing to lend me a compatible drive that will let me try and retireve the data. I do have 21 tapes of which only 6 or 7 are really important so I could always use one of the other less important tapes during a test to see if any drives I get can read and retrieve data properly off the tapes.

John
 
QIC Standards

QIC Standards

"If it says QIC-2 and doesn't mention 24, then there is a good chance the tapes were originally produced by SUN at 24, but when I got them I used the common QIC-2."

You are mixing interface and tape encoding standards. QIC-11 and QIC-24 are two tape recording standards. QIC-02 is an interface standard.

If you got about 60mb of data on a 600 ft tape, you were writing the data in QIC-24 format. The most common transports made at that time were made
by Wangtek (5099) and Archive (2060). The basic transport used a QIC-36 interface. Adapters were made that would convert QIC-36 to either QIC-02 (L) or SCSI (S).
There were 60 and 150mb versions of the drive that have embedded SCSI
adapters.

600HC will be a red herring if you used the tapes on any of these drives, as
the act of writing will have overwritten the prerecorded block format of the
HC tape.
 
Al,

Thanks for the information. I do have another question for you now. A friend of mine has an old Amiga 3000 SCSI tape drive. He looked it up and it appears to be compatible with the tapes that I used. His drive was for 150mb tapes, but we are figuring and hoping that those drives are backwards compatible and can at least read from 60mb tapes like the ones I have. My question for you is this. If I was storing data in QIC-24 format, will it matter what storage software I used? I can't recall the actual backup software I used, but if we were to find any generic QIC-24 compatible backup software would or could it be possible to read and retrieve data fromn the tapes?

Thanks for your input

John

PS: My friend looked up the Amiga drive specs and it appears to be a standard drive that used SCSI and as such was compatible with the Amiga. There were two versions of that drive that used the internal mechanisms like most other external SCSI boxed tape drives of that era. I believe one of the names my friendmentioned was Archive, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm going to call him in a few minutes and see what the names of the manufacturers were exactly.
 
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Here is the info he found.

Model 3070
Name External 150 MB Tape Drive
Colour Beige
Introduced 1991
Description For use with Commodore Amiga UNIX for the A3000UX variant, the A3070 houses a Archive Viper 150MB 1/4" tape streamer mechanism in an attractive casing that matches the A3000 styling. It has relatively odd 25 pin connectors, but includes a power supply.

I'm hoping that the drive can work in DOS as well as Unix. If worse comes to worse, I do have a LINUX box where I can try to retrieve the data to, then move it to my windows machines via my LAN.

John
 
Gang! :)

I have some further information. The following drives can read/write my tapes.

Tandberg TDC3600 QIC-24 QIC-24 TDC 3600

TDC3800 QIC-24 QIC-24 TDC 3800

TDC4200 QIC-24 QIC-24 TDC 4200

TDC4222 QIC-24 QIC-24 TDC 4222

Archive Viper QIC-24 QIC-24 ARCHIVE V

Wangtek 5150 QIC-24 QIC-24 5150
5525E QIC-24 QIC-24 5525E


As for that Amiga drive I mentioned earlier. It turns out it should be able to read the data off the tapes fine, but not write. That won't be a problem as I am hoping to just retrieve the data and then burn it to DVD-R.

The only bad thing is that I have to wait till Sunday before I can try to restore the tapes. My friend with the drive will be coming down to visit then. I'm so anxious to see my old BBS that I can hardly wait. I feel like a kid counting the seconds until Christmas morning from the night before. :)

John
 
Anyone know of any DOS software that can read QIC-24 tapes from a SCSI drive? My friend with the Amiga drive thinks he has a SCSI card for it as well, but definitely doesn't have the backup software for a DOS PC. I could always install the SCSI card and drive to my newer XP system, but I don't know if there is software compatible with XP that can read the old tapes.

As always, if anyone has any info, please let me know.


Thank you.

John
 
Anyone know of any DOS software that can read QIC-24 tapes from a SCSI drive?

Well, I have a package here from Sytron Corp. called Pulse Tape Backup Software that came, I believe with a archive scorpion?/Wangtek combo. The controller may be somewhere in a box but the drive is definately toast.

It says that it is compatible with a number of operating systems, network environments, tape configurations, etc. in the software/hardware compatability section of the manual. Oh, did I mention I have the original manual and diskette (which is a good thing since the disk is copy-protected).

It's definately DOS based and has (probably) ANSI window menus and it is from around 1982-1984.

It seems to be some sort of 3rd party software and it's yours if you think it will help and you PM me an address to ship it to.

Research shows that Sytron was, somehow, attached to Wangtek at some point in time.

It appears that it should work with just about any drive as there is a setup screen for DMA, Interrupt # and base I/O address.

That being said, if you used any sort of compression scheme during backup, you're screwed without the exact software that you backed it up with.
 
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