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On to college...

atari2600a

Veteran Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
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Schwarzeneggerville, CA
Well I just got the online results of the California High School Equivelancy Examination today & I passed! On to college, while still 16! :p

One major question that *just* struck me is I never though about what to major in. I enjoy repairing, & I enjoy programming, though currently I don't *really* know any high-level languages. (currently hooked on 6502 ASM)

As I've been here for 2ish years, you guys probably know me best on these matters. So what would you guys think I should major in?
 
Clueless here. Maybe think about what skills you will need later to go into business for yourself. I have lost all my illusions about the great Corp world. They use you up and spit you out before you can collect any benefits. If you want to do high level stuff in I.T., will have to move to India I guess.
 

I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny or not, but we own a hair salon and I've got to say that some of those ladies make nice ching.

Another purely practical thing about personal services like that, is that those jobs can't be shipped overseas. How many people would fly to China every 6 weeks to get their roots done?

That said, if you've got your heart set on something in the computer realm, software jobs can be easily outsourced, hardware jobs can't.
 
Ooooo, that is true about hardware! If you want to be a total slave, study network engineering. Microsoft networks as there is little left alive besides Microsoft. Do some SQL Server studies too.

Then, you can work days, nights, weekends trying to keep it all going and everyone happy 24 hours a day. Do not forget to check messages every hour on the hour and must have your beeper turned on with good batteries at all times.
 
Is there even a beeper service still running? lol

There is here in El Paso! I couldn't believe it when I saw it, but there it was. People here are just that way.

I recommend networking, it's a gateway to so much else. The only drawback is that most programs make you learn Cisco, which as far as I can tell is being rendered obsolete. Other than that, you can be a networker like me (soon) and learn Unix scripting along the way.

Nathan
 
Not to discourage you, but I.T., from what I've learned, is a TOUGH field to get started in and to keep going in, especially right now with the "disposable society" a near complete reality.

All the tech/helpdesk jobs that do not deal directly with the hardware are being outsourced to India. In one way it's a "good thing" according to some because those jobs DO suck, I know, I've been in the tech support/helpdesk end where all I did was take calls, and I hated it. It's not much of a "Techical" job compared to say, actually working on machines, or actually solving the big problems, but it was a good starting spot for many in the I.T. field, and this is probably one thing that has made it harder to get into.

Computers are cheap, so repairing them is becoming more and more of a rarity. People like us here are about as obsolete as the machines we're working on. The days of quality are long gone, most of the machines you will find are mass marketed consumer made crap, and not worth fixing as most of the parts are consolidated into one part (eg. the Motherboard). Most of the machines I see in a day at my job that don't work, they're headed for the scrap crusher as soon as a RAM module fails, because it's cheaper to replace the machine than it is to lose one person's days work for a few hours while we replace a DIMM. Anything old or over 2 years old is tagged as surplus and headed for the store or scrap crusher. It's sad, most newer machines don't "live" long enough to see 5 years old, but it's the truth of the I.T. world as it is nowadays. Add that to the companies like Geek Squad who are paid minimum wage to come look at your $200.00 Compaq/HP Tower for 20 minutes to tell you you need a new one, and it's looking pretty bleak for repair. Despite their chintzyness, newer computers CAN be great, if you find the right ones, so it's half and half. You have one group of cheap, crappy, low-end PC's that are neglected because their owners can't afford the price of repair/upgrades, and the upper-middle end PC's, usually used by more experienced users, that have little or no problems because of the experience of the user. Another thing killing is are "nice guys" like me who have friends and family whom we do "free" repairs and tech support for.

Which leads me to saturation. The I.T. Job Market is FLOODED right now with young to mid 20 something folks like me. All of us grew up through the 486-pentium Internet age, listening to all the PSAs on TV, and all our school councilors talking about how "cool" computers are, and how rich you will become if you learn ANY computing trade (haha). Now it's like every 20 something year old guy with a screwdriver is a PC technician. All the guys I work with at work, we all are just as obsessed with computers as I am, allbeit I'm the only one who can appreciate a fine old 286 or 486 box, but that's beside the point. To make it in IT, one must persue being the BEST at their job, and have very very very very interpersonal skills to go with it, because the business/corporate world works more on interpersonal skills, money, and what people think of you, than actual skill. Skill helps bring the older more value-filled people into your favor.

Programming is another "outside this country" thing. Almost ALL of Nintendo's programming happens in Japan. Same goes for a lot of other companies that need precision programming, it's either Japan, China, or India, where the labor is cheaper, and the worth ethic is ridiculous by American standards. The only American programming that happens is in the game world, but you have to have something original, and a REALLY REALLY GOOD marketing team to make it happen. I think the best programming here would happen with people who create something useful that everybody wants, that's my basic thought on it. I can think of a million pieces of software I'd love to make, but I don't have the skills to do it (yet?).

Network Admin and Network Techs will possibly be the only thing to survive the same way as always, the upside is it is something that will NOT go away, unless we find a way to swap out a part in a server remotely (which I dont' think is possible yet, I have yet to hear a switch tech say "Beam me up scottie!" and wind up in the server closet fixing a faulty switch). Network Technicians and Network Techs get pretty good pay, better the more you know, and if you go for things like the Cisco certifications, they can give you mucho cred and get you the high paying network jobs, though they DO involve a lot of globetrotting.

6502 Assembly is near useless these days outside of retro-games, though it could be a good starting point to other assembly languages. Actually, all Assembly is seldom used anymore, it's just not efficient enough for today's programs. C++, Visual BASIC, SQL, Perl, and Java seem to be the most popular ones I've heard about in the programming circles.
 
Nah, the "Quality Assurance Group" would never let you get away with doing something is assembler, too hard to qualify as working. They have all the methods to apply to the source to make sure bla bla bla.

Like I said, "ring ring ring - Hi this is the HP server center control module - current room temp is 110 degrees - get dressed and get your a$$ down here and fix the a/c." I actually had a Compaq unit that would do just that, call me at home day or night, didn't matter. Used a female voice, would spit out codes though. "You have a 131 error and a 245 error. Press one to repeat errors." I would hang up, get out my little code book that I had on me all the time, hmmm, 131 Getting Hot, 245 Scsi drive array failed.

Ah, such fine memories....
 
I think the software outsourcing is about to slow down or end. The best programmers in India, China etc are looking to move elsewhere to get even better paid. It leaves the better than average labour which may not be exactly as loyal and eager. In customer oriented software development, it will be even more important to have the developers close to the customer in time and possibly distance. Also as these countries evolve and get bigger internal economies, they will no longer accept much lower payment than colleagues abroad. On the other hand, perhaps IT professionals generally are overpaid compared to what they (us) do?

Choosing a career is just as much about what you like to do and what would earn you most money. When I studied computer sciences, I had classmates who almost never had used a computer, much less programmed one or had any particular interest in one. A few of them might not even have owned a computer before taking the studies. Their motivation was that a good IT/programming job makes big money, and studied only for the chance of landing a good job. Others like me took the classes due to an unhealthy interest in computers - that is what you get when you have played with home computers since 9 years old. I know a lot of people who are just as interested in computers, but wouldn't bother to try a professional career. They know that in order to make the BIG BUCKS you have to be absolutely top class, and they'd rather major in another subject where it is easier to land a well paid job.
 
Well done!
But now for a particularly different answer.... What else do you enjoy?

I wrote about this to bbcmicro, I was a complete electronics nerd throughout school, went to university to do a degree in electronics, and it took all the joy out of it & I learnt very little of use besides.

Courses that are now running in the uk include "electronic music" and "robotics", "environmental technology" etc... Stuff with my interests at the core, but a lot else in too, to keep you broad.

My other experience is that having ANY degree is a lot better than having "half a degree" in a relevant subject, most of what the degree says is that "you're clever, and capable of learning" you actually do most of your learning once you start work.

A final thought... industry focus changes so rapidly in technology, that you can have no idea about the jobs available in about 7 years time, when you have finished training, done a bit of "graduate work" and are looking for a career. Technology degrees can take quite a bit of time & effort, It's a lot easier if you're having fun doing it (or study sociology and party more)!
 
M-M said:
All of us grew up through the 486-pentium Internet age, listening to all the PSAs on TV, and all our school councilors talking about how "cool" computers are, and how rich you will become if you learn ANY computing trade (haha).

In my day, the big career they were pushing was 'keypunch operator'.

nige said:
A final thought... industry focus changes so rapidly in technology, that you can have no idea about the jobs available in about 7 years time, when you have finished training, done a bit of "graduate work" and are looking for a career. Technology degrees can take quite a bit of time & effort, It's a lot easier if you're having fun doing it (or study sociology and party more)!

I'd go with the hairdresser...you'll always be able to find work.

Frank Zappa said:
"You can make more money as a butcher..."

...or anything not computer related.

--T
 
Now, I never went to college (I was too ignorant to see the usefulness in the future) however if you do software engineering or possibly hardware engineering you can still play with microcontrollers similar to the 6502.. I think they're still teaching mainly on 68HCxx units. You'd basically learn similar skills as to what you're doing now and with some of your own intuition could guide that towards inventing set-top units or other home toys or utilities.

As boring as it can be a great combination is having a major in something IT and getting your minor/associates in business. That can be the key to starting your own company or being a higher paid manager later.

Keep in mind a LOT of people major in something different than the full time job they end up in. Out of most of the IT folks I know, several were liberal arts majors, one had a major in history, the only person we had for a while with a degree in IT didn't know what they hell they were doing, and I was at the top of the foodchain there and I barely made it through highschool so it's an open playing field out there. Just get into something you enjoy.

- John
 
College???

College???

I never went to college either. Through mostly luck and a talent for soaking up and applying technical knowledge as and when needed, I found myself working for a software/hardware giant as a software support specialist.

I get to work from home 99% of the time, and I earn about the same as a plumber (i.e. a LOT) without needing to be knee deep in sh*t.

Can't be bad.

Paul.
 
I'm 3/4 of my way through my first term at Sixth Form college0, and I love it.
I have to start writing applications for university in sometime next year, Sixth form for me is only a 2 year hop onto uni (Hopefully)

I have never really wanted a job in I.T., but it still fascinated me, and to keep my options open I chose a mix of subjects. Computing and Electronics for the techy side, and English Literature, Classical Civilisations and Music Theory (Not an A level, just an ABRSM certificate, for those who care ;)) for the more artsy farsty side.

I know that I have placed myself at a disadvantage for a career in Electronics/Computing because I did not take Maths or Physics (Which Nige warned me about), but no loss to me because I DESPISE maths and physics, and I'm not planning a career in these fields anyway.

Electronics is fantastic, Today I built my first decimal counter from flip flops, and I don't need to get into the nitty-gritty that physics would require. I don't know how many choices you get in the American education system, but if you have enough, keep your options open by taking a spread.

If you know pretty much what you want to do later on, you have to try and think ahead, some higher level courses won't let you in if you don't have the right qualifications under your belt, or you may find yourself totally lost. I notice that those who took physics grasp the theory of Electronics more quickly, and those who took English can write better analyses in Classics.

My advice may totally contradict that of others, if so I'll bow to experience :)
 
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Hmm, electronics is just about ALL math!! Granted all the useful stuff is simple algebra, like "how do I get a 22K resistor out of what I have in this box and I don't see a 22K in there"
 
Yup, Maths! but it's nowhere near as complicated as I found GCSE Maths at school. No trigonometry, quadratics, or nasty stuff. I have no difficulty with maths, I just hate the pointless situation, where you can get buried in pages of dense notes to answer one question, with a million possible places of error.

Questions are usually like "Work out the time constant of the circuit", "Find the frequecy of this 555 timer" "Find the mark to space ratio of this signal"

It's not simplistic, but it's not rocket science either.
 
atari2600a wrote:

Well I just got the online results of the California High School Equivelancy Examination today & I passed! On to college, while still 16! :p

One major question that *just* struck me is I never though about what to major in. I enjoy repairing, & I enjoy programming, though currently I don't *really* know any high-level languages. (currently hooked on 6502 ASM)

As I've been here for 2ish years, you guys probably know me best on these matters. So what would you guys think I should major in?

Don't really wanna push people around when it comes to programming cause it really depends on yourself. To program well I really feel that you need to be good at Maths and not just your General Maths, but something which is a bit trickier for the human mind. I went the path a bit when I was 18 or 19 and felt by 21 that I wasn't going to get anywhere with it. Most of my programs have either being translated or are simple demos though I'm more interested in older hardware and computers anyway! The reason I pursued programming was because I was doing some Pascal stuff and reworking it for Delphi and perhaps the assignment was too easy - I did this as a Yr. 11 subject when I was in Yr. 12 and the following year I was thrown into 'C' language and found it difficult from the get go. The second year I was hopeless and it really blew in my face when the class started doing 'C++' - the teacher was a bore too (which didn't help). I wasn't even caught in a class full of 100 students either! :-(

Perhaps if I did that subject years before when they were doing Pascal I might of being in for a shot - I seem to be a natural with Pascal, finding it easy to translate BASIC programs to Pascal is easy for me (some people find it hard though), some programs are harder than others though!

To know 'C' well you really need to grasp Maths well, C and it forerunners to it were the language of choice when I was studing this 10 years ago, nowadays I feel it's more Java orientated which can be just as tricky from what I've heard.

I'd like to think Assembly was still the best language for anything, though I'm unsure how much it's used nowadays with these fast computers and huge memory. The advantage would be you could write some huge kick butt program that leaves C++ or Java programs for dead! :-D
 
nige the hippy wrote:

A final thought... industry focus changes so rapidly in technology, that you can have no idea about the jobs available in about 7 years time, when you have finished training, done a bit of "graduate work" and are looking for a career. Technology degrees can take quite a bit of time & effort, It's a lot easier if you're having fun doing it (or study sociology and party more)!

Yes I can relate to this & in the end I feel it drove me around the bend trying to keep up with technologies.

Computers are used in many fields and the Environment is no exception, it's so vast I suppose you can do stuff like GIS mapping, Database, Spreadsheet or what I like is Photography or movie making to make some kind of viable product which could have value to the region. During my studies I knocked together some Indigenous Plants and put them onto a CD-ROM and just had some HTML/Javascript to display them.

Of course the beauty with the environment is you don't need to be sitting in an office all day (with perhaps the exception to Mapping, unless you're doing the Aerial Photography!).

I had some fun doing some posters - not sure how commercially viable they would be, to make it interesting I added some cartoonish drawings, photos, psychedelic backgrounds with the aim of educating - guess it would be pretty cool going around Schools (as a freelance) and getting paid to knock up a poster with an environmental message!

I can understand what your going through Atari2600a having being in a position myself where you think you'd like to get somewhere with a particular thing, but you're not sure if it's the right thing or not. It's really a matter what your interested in and what you're good at. I'm unsure how relevant it is to say "if you can put your mind to something, you can achieve anything" as Michael J. Fox did in Back to the Future, I guess if it's within reason that's fine, otherwise teachers should be able to give you some guidance as to what your good at - and above anything else it's gotta be interesting for yourself. For myself when I came to the last two years of my studies I was doing IT, Graphics, Maths, Accounting!, English (cause I had to), Agricultural & Horticultural studies (perhaps the reason I went on to the Environment). I was somewhat happy with my work at IT in Yr. 11, though Yr. 12 it was a bit of a drag (my Yr. 12 teacher was good and supportive in a way and felt I should do something else beside work in front of a computer all day). Graphics I enjoyed in Yr. 11 and in Yr. 12 I was working my butt off to get a good result - still my teacher was good, he was particularly impressed how I pickup Photo shop from scratch after showing me some of the fundamentals of it. Agricultural & Horticultural studies I did in Yr. 11, though as a Yr. 12 subject - I was happy getting an average mark for it!
 
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