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Do You Consider Your Vintage Computer Collection An Investment?

A

Arob

New Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Toronto, Ontario
This is a touchy subject among many collectors and their wives and families.

Is buying collectibles a good investment?

Depends doesn't it - Royal Doulton is no longer a good investment, but yet old cell phones are selling for 10x their original list price...?

I'm curious about vintage electronics and the marketplace - are prices rising? Is there a buzz ? is there a show and sale that regulates prices and an auction that establishes 'trends' in the market? Is there a magazine? any more websites than this?

Is this collectible genre growing, or fading? by what metrics?
 
I don't think my collection is really an investment. I'm going for models which are generally well-known, supported and common. It's also a vey limited list, and I'm not prepared to pay high prices just becaused something is "boxed".

I'm collecting them more to keep some history alive, and I don't intend to sell them.
 
I tell my wife it is!

I suppose anything that is getting rarer will at some point increase in value provided that there are still nutters like us around to want them.

When I buy something I try to buy non-working machines, because you learn an awful lot trying to fix them and tracking down the literature to do so.
I've nearly gone cross eyed trying to fix the dead MZ80K that's on my bench, 2 completely separate faults so far, but I think I've got it now. Just need a couple of 74LS series chips. (ooohhh 500th posting!)
 
It sure is an investment! Every day, more and more of these old treasures are thrown away to "Electronic Recyclers." I plan to retire on much of my collection. My goal is to collect as many complete machines as I can. I will continue with this until I am 55 or so. I will then sell off most of my machines. Of those I intend to keep(including ones I don't have yet, but will have someday): AT&T 6300, IBM 5150, Apple Lisa (2?), Altair(with disk drives, maybe a turnkey machine), IMSAI(with drives)(debatable), Tandy AIO computer(8" disk drives), Packard Bell Legend 2440. I intend to have at least 1 machine of every processor class from the 8080-80586. I also intend to have a few Macintoshes. I may end up keeping my Classic II around. But the list above, except for the IMSAI and Packard are all machines I intend to keep with me until my majestic death(shot to the moon? Taken down from the mafia?). Seems to me, all I need to get ahold of is a Lisa, Altair, and maybe an IMSAI. Probably a Kaypro 16 and a Compaq Portable II as well. The Tandy shouldn't be too hard to find. Every time I see that model on eBay, I just got done blowing my money on something else. But of course, I am pretty discrimative with my collection. My machines are required to be in top shape, have all the manuals, and preferebly have me as the second owner. I've accomplished this with a few machines I have around...

--Ryan
I'll open a 401(K) just in case. Of course if the world ends in 2012 like I am expecting, I won't have to worry about it...Luckily I will know for sure before I have any big serious job. I'm 16 in May, so you do the math with the years.
 
Arob said:
This is a touchy subject among many collectors and their wives and families.

Is buying collectibles a good investment?

Depends doesn't it - Royal Doulton is no longer a good investment, but yet old cell phones are selling for 10x their original list price...?

I'm curious about vintage electronics and the marketplace - are prices rising? Is there a buzz ? is there a show and sale that regulates prices and an auction that establishes 'trends' in the market? Is there a magazine? any more websites than this?

Is this collectible genre growing, or fading? by what metrics?
Click to expand...

You're right -- this is a touchy subject.

Many of us here on the forums here collect older, vintage computers primarily for hobbyist purposes or going back in time using the software that we utilized in our earlier years such as computer games, certain programming languages ... all sorts of programs. Obviously we recognize the general value of what certain older computers go for on the marketplace, so we're not blind to it. Probably not going to throw down $500 USD for a TI-99/4A anytime soon.

But here's my point, is your primary use for those older computers for resale/investment purposes? Which it sounds like it is -- instead of appreciating these computers for what they are and the software that was designed for them.

So yeah, if you're looking at it from an investment perspective, perhaps look at closed listings from ebay and do the math. I don't know what more to say than that.

Other than the fact that I personally think that you're posting in the wrong website.
 
Hi
I wouldn't consider my collection an investment but it
is good to see that most items are not losing value. I'm
a little over 60 now and don't wish to leave the familly
with a pile of junk.
I payed $300 for my IMSAI with original drives( 8 inch
single sided ) and rare early controller by Torode.
I've only seen one of these with this controller on
ebay. It is believed that this controller was the first
sold on the s100 that ran CP/M. Next being IMSAI's
disk controller.
I payed $250 for my Canon Cat ( seen them sell on
ebay for $1800 ).
Some that I really care about have not increased much,
like my H89. One of my favorite machines.
I do have rare machines as well. I have a working Nicolet
1080 ( w/ disk ). To my knowledge, there are only 5 of these
still know to exist.
I also have a Polymorphic 8813. There are most likely less
than 100 of these left. The Poly88 was more common but
these are rare as well. I've not seen any 8813s on ebay
but I've seen partial Poly88 go for several hundred dollars.
So in a sense, I do expect that these will always have some
value.
Still, I don't collect like palying cards or such. I collect to
run the machines an understand their designs. I fix them and
track down rare software.
I help to archive both software and documentation. I consider
this the most important part of my hobby.
Dwight
 
I don't consider my hobby an investment. Everything I buy/get I asume it to be worthless, or at worst case going to cost me a few bucks 30 years down the road to recycle. This keeps me from speculating and hoarding, I also seeks the best deals since my hobby is a money sink. Granted I can sell what I own for more then what I paid for it, but I don't want to end up chasing items just for resale. Too many people get caught up in the money aspect and it kills their hobby, this is for fun and relaxation not a job (for me anyway).

As a side note, the most desired usable stuff will allways be worth something to somebody.
 
Nope, it's not an investment for me. It's a hobby. An expensive hobby, but I don't collect stuff based on value or resale value. I get the computers I want (or need) to fill the gap in my ever growing collection. The stuff I have in my shed is for my own amusement, not a pension plan.

Yes, I do buy computers in lots with much accessories and split them up and sell the stuff I don't want. But I've never bought anything that didn't contain something I really wanted.

// Z
 
Yeah, as I mentioned, I have a balance. Most of my systems I keep because of my love for them. Others, I just find around the area. As a matter of fact, looking around, I really only have the systems I want to keep until the end. Except I have a Tandy 1K SX here, but I am looking to get rid of it. I'll do that when I get all the packing stuff together, though.

--Ryan
 
Investment.. maybe albeit I would probably never sell any of them. I'm collecting the IBM 5150-5170 machines, well, I have a 5150, 5155, 5160 & 5170, NEED THE 5162! They all work, they get used. I suppose when I am old and grey and feeling benevolant, I may donate them to a museum or sell them to a collector, but for now, I play with them as much as possible because they remind me of my happy early years with computers
 
Well, in a sense, I do it for a couple of reasons.

I suppose I'd be what you call an intermediate collector.

I take what people don't want, repair it, return it to it's original condition (as much as possible) and get it into the hands of people that want it or need it.

I like repairing computers, I'm good at repairing computers, I've been repairing computers longer than most of you have been alive, I would imagine and I like to be able to supply what someone is/has been looking for. Since the first computers I worked on were PDP-8s, most of your vintage stuff was new when I first worked on it.

Sure, I make some money along the way, but, I'm not getting rich. I AM, however, saving little bits of history from the crusher and, even if what I do is, somewhat mercenary, the people that end up with my transient collection seem to think they got a fair deal.

They might be able to get the stuff that I have on fleabay or somewhere for less, but, the big difference is that my stuff works.

I'd say, in my case, a minor investment.
 
I agree with some previous replys, is not an investmet, no body is likely to bocome rich by buying and selling Vintage computers, most people consider old computers just junk, that's how we get our hands in some good items some times almost for free.

Some old rare and good computers may go up in value... like an original apple I
sold for almost $16000 now if one of those come up may be sold for more tan $40000 I guess.... but how many of us have an original peace like that...
 
I don't really see mine as an investment... but I am unlikely to buy something for more than I know it could be sold on for in the future (thay way, if I were to sell my collection I wouldn't do any worse than to break even).

Problem is, I am obsessed in keeping my machines to factory specifications and obtaining the correct manuals and disks... but that's part of the fun :)
 
Hi,

I consider my vintage computers a hobby and a lot of fun. It is good stress relief and valuable continuing education. As an engineer, I see value in maintaining engineering and electronics skills. Keeping technical proficiency is important for engineers in general and can be rather difficult in some of the "white collar" engineering disciplines.

Technical skills have a way of eroding over time and fixing vintage computers is one good way to keep them alive. Ham radio, remote controlled vehicles, and other hobbies are also good choices but I prefer fixing the vintage computers because I just like it and have enjoyed doing it since I was a kid.

Maybe this pile of stuff has some value and maybe it doesn't. I don't really care all that much as it has already proven its worth to me. I do know that working vintage computers are worth more than broken ones. Of course, working machines aren't nearly as much fun as those under repair.

I just wish I had more time and space to tinker with these machines.

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch
 
I don't think it's a touchy subject to be honest, different people collect for different reasons but I don't see why someone would be offended by an answer.

Anyway, it's interesting to see people's responses and I expected a few more (or atleast one) person to say it was an investment. So I collect because I love computers and history of computers and to preserve the history in working order. So it's a personal love and some what a love of the chase of those few rare systems that everyone really wants. However recently I've been getting computers for a few gaps in the collection and yes, I do consider it as an investment since they go up in value. In order for me to justify to myself paying $600-$2800 for a few rarer systems I do need to understand that this money can come back if I sell it eventually, given I have no desire to flip the computers or sell them at this time however I imagine I may eventually be forced to sell them or if something happens to me the family will be able to use them as assets if something did happen. Now I probably do need to start cataloging the items and values which I haven't done.

(oops.. left this open from yesterday and never clicked submit)

- John
 
vintage computers and speculators

vintage computers and speculators

I thought append to this thread rather than starting a new one as the content is certainly related.

I’ve finally got my ZX-81. I paid a lot more than I ever expected to, but after losing about 5 auctions I had to adjust my mental valuation of the thing. It’s the only vintage computer I’ve bought where I’ve paid more for the unit than when it was new! (although maybe not if you inflation-adjust).

I was talking to a friend over coffee at work about prices for vintage things. He collects vintage cars from all over the world and has done so for a while. He was telling me the going price for a particular vintage car can actually fluctuate up and down.

This was news to me, as I’d always assumed that the value of something “vintage” would increase over time. I'd thought that for rare or notable items the increase would be large and for common it would be small. But, on average, the price would still increase.

He says not necessarily. Prices can cycle. What can happen is that speculators in the market can suddenly start to buy up easy-to-find models ON THE EXPECTATION of selling it at a high price later. This is sort of like a feeding frenzy which could be triggered by a newspaper or TV article, or simply rumour that these cars will increase hugely in value. These people have no interest at all in the cars per sae; they only see them as an investment. After a few months or maybe a year or two, the bubble bursts and prices come right down again to a value that more reflects a true value. During the speculation period, it can be hard for genuine car enthusiasts to get hold of some classic models.

Can this (or does this) happen with vintage computers? I’m quite new to this vintage collecting game but I suspect it does. Some other folk have alluded to this in other threads.

What do you think? Are there certain models being sold out there at the moment for way more than they are really worth simply due to a speculation feeding-frenzy?
 
Steven Jobs Next computers were touted as the most collectible computers at the end of the century. I think this has contributed to the continuing value of Next'.

On the other hand I still tend to agree with that assessment.

Where you do get speculators runs is on a computer which is touted on some web-page and follow-up articles such as the otherwise inexplicable popularity of the Commodore SX64 which had some popular articles done on a hack to it. At least it wasn't as tacky as the classic Mac aquariums.

Many home computers are also rising in price because of the gravitating to them of many of the Gamers who grew up with Nintendos and other limited dedicated platform machines.
It also lends an air of sophistication to these players and they are encouraging exploration of these supposedly outmoded machines and more importantly to the economy of codeing which has become a liscence to sloppiness for most modern programmers confronted with vast vistas of memory and speed by modern computers.

Computer history can be as interesting and complimentary as human history. And as ridiculous.

Lawrence
 
NEXT is popular because of Steve Jobs and Apple and Unix, plus it bombed so not that many were made.
 
I've definitely noticed prices cycling on ebay, there also seems to be a seasonal element.

There are also selling frenzies, where something will go for a stupidly high price, & suddenly there are 3 more of them up for sale, which gradually diminish in selling price as the available buyers are used up (strangely with the exception of the run of Seiko data bank watches which all went for about £30 ????).

General overall trend on machines that are working, and have a good software base is is up though, at probably about 25% per year.

If I'd get any business wits about me, I'd have bought an awful lot of ZX81s last year at less than a tenner each, and flogged them all to people in New Zealand!
 
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