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Loading dos into UMB on an XT

Anonymous Coward

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I am currently using a program from QuarterDeck called "QRAM 2.0" which has the ability to extend conventional memory beyond 640k (if UMB is contiguous), and load drivers into UMBs. I have so far managed to free up 144kb in UMBs and have successfully loaded all of my drivers into it. However, it would be really nice if I could load DOS into UMB as well. The DOS= line does not work on an XT as far as I know, because it requires HIMEM.SYS to be loaded first. That is normally how one loads DOS HIGH. Despite what logic says, DOS=UMB does not load DOS into UMB, it just allows DOS to manage UMBs, which won't work on an XT.

I suspect that loading DOS UMB would require some kind of proprietary software. It's very possible that QRAM has the functionality built in, but I don't have the proper documentation, and the read.me file does not cover all the specifics of the software. Does anyone in here have experience with QRAM, or any other software that can stuff DOS into the UMB on an XT?
 
I made some slight progress with a little information on the newsgroups. Though, having the actual documentation would be a real help. What I discovered is that it is possible to load files, buffers, and the drive list into upper memory, freeing up in my case 8kb of conventional memory...though I am not sure if the DOS kernel itself can be loaded into upper memory. It would sure be useful though.

Another problem I am having is that although the manifest utility shows a 32kb segment in the B region as available, optimize is not adding it. I need to know how to manually make memory regions available to the QRAM utility.

UPDATE:

There is a program from QuarterDeck called "dos-up.sys", which supposedly does what I need it to do. However, it normally comes with QEMM and I am not sure if it is compatible with QRAM. I'll download it and find out.
 
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It appears that DOS-UP.SYS in indeed compatible with QRAM.SYS. I just need to figure out how to configure it. So far I've only managed to free up a few KB.
 
IIRC, the Quarterdeck can only allocate memory in contiguous 64K blocks. If there's only 32K available, you may not be able to use it at all. (I could be fulla crap, too).

--T
 
I think that's not correct, it can allocate memory in 16kb blocks. I have one such block available that I am using. I think QRAM is just kind of dumb and not very good at utilizing available blocks. I had to do a trick in order to get it to use the E region which QRAM reported was available. (remapping the EMS page frame to E region, and then disabling did the trick)

I have good news though. DOS-UP.SYS does indeed work on an 8088, and it's not hard to operate. All you have to do to make it work properly is steal the loadhi.com and loadhi.sys files from QEMM.

I got most of DOS into UMB using that method. Here's what my memory situation is like at the moment:

free conventional: 608kb
total UMB available for DOS and drivers: 144kb
free UMB memory (after drivers): 23kb

Here's what I have loaded in UMB:

CC00 - CC59 1.3k QRAM
CC5A - D467 23k FDCD (ASPI)
D468 - D57F 4.3k @M-XBIOS (1.44mb extension)
D580 - D58E 0.2k DOS-UP
D58F - DE95 36k DOS CODE
DE96 - DECE 0.8k FILES
DECF - DEDF 0.2k FCBS
DEE0 - E02D 5.2k BUFFERS
E02E - E0BD 2.2k LASTDRIV
E0BE - E0C7 0.1k INSTALL
E0CB - E613 21k MSCDEX
E619 - EA43 16k MOUSE

Not too shabby for an XT eh? Now to figure out how to free that 32kb block.
 
I think I may have found the reason that I am not able to take advantage of the free memory block in the B region. According to my EMS card's documentation, it is not capable of mapping in that region. QRAM is not able to use blocks that are not accessible to the LIM 4.0 card. That's really too bad. :(

It seems that perhaps my EMS card, despite what the box says, is not a full implementation of LIM 4.0. The instruction manual advertises the card as being "100% LIM 4.0 hardware compatible". However, I am pretty sure that LIM 4.0 is quite flexible, and not only allows you to size the pageframe as large as you want, but also have one that is not contiguous, and can even occupy space in regular conventional memory addresses. From what I've seen my software driver only allows 64kb pageframe between C000 and EFFF. Perhaps the card is 100% LIM compatible, but the drivers certainly don't seem to be. I still have 42kb of UMB that could be put to good use. I wonder if the rampage software is any better.
 
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From what I can tell it won't really be possible for me to get any more memory with QRAM and my current EMS board. My card can't map to the B region. Though from what I've read the VGA cards sometimes use 32k space at B000 to emulate the monochrome adapter. I'm not exactly sure if I would ever use a monochrome video mode, but for compatibility's sake it's not something you would necessarily want to map over.

The other 10kb will also not be possible to get at, as I had mentioned before the blocks must be at least 16kb in size to be usable. If I removed my SCSI card which takes 6kb, I could get at it. In my opinion it's not really worth it. One idea had crossed my mind to trick the SCSI card to map to B000...though it doesn't seem like an easy thing to do.

I guess I should be pretty happy that I managed to free up quite a bit of UMB and use a driver not intended for an 8088 system to load dos into that region.
 
Yeah, I was going to suggest that the 32K you can't get at is prolly reserved for VRAM, which may be locked-in so tightly that even QMEM can't use it.

--T
 
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What or who is QD?

Anyway, it is very unlikely that this driver would do any good, because if it is what I think it is, the purpose is to extend conventional memory into the B region when using a monochrome adapter. My 32kb block is not contiguous, so such a driver would not work. The only way I know to get at that region is to install a LIM 4.0 board that can do mapping in the B region (I think the AST Rampage can). I have an AST Rampage installed in my 5150, so I might try using QRAM on it later.
 
I think that's not correct, it can allocate memory in 16kb blocks. I have one such block available that I am using. I think QRAM is just kind of dumb and not very good at utilizing available blocks. I had to do a trick in order to get it to use the E region which QRAM reported was available. (remapping the EMS page frame to E region, and then disabling did the trick)

How did you do this? I have an Above Board but I don't have the ability (apparently) to move the page frame where I want it... How are you getting contiguous RAM after 640k?
 
http://picasaweb.google.com/misterzeropage/MyVintageComputerStuff#5150345715787562770

My Orchid Ramquest 8/16 and AST Rampage both allow me to move the page frame by setting flags in on the driver file located in the config.sys. By default EMS page frame is set for the D region. I moved mine to the E region which as far as I can tell is empty. So I have the entire D region, the E region and a 16kb block at the end of the C region available to me. I got lucky and it just turned out to be contiguous memory (but not contiguous with conventional memory), but with QRAM the UMBs don't have to be contiguous for it to use them. They just have to be at least 16kb in size. In my system the only adapter ROM installed is the SCSI adapter. Supposedly the TMC-850 might do some memory mapping, but I don't yet know where that happens. In the event I made some kind of error mapping my UMBs there is an exclude command that I can use to manually remove the undetected in-use region. I've been testing a lot of software, and so far the only one I've managed to get to freak out is PCTOOLS SI version 8.

Are you certain your Above Board is LIM 4.0 compliant? I am pretty sure that at least the first versions only do LIM 3.2.

Another nifty little trick I can do is to re-enable the EMS page frame in the E region and have both 80kb of upper memory and expanded memory available concurrently. Just imagine what kind of damage I could do by using a monochrome adapter. In theory that could expand conventional memory by 96kb, though I might have to use another driver to get at it. Perhaps if I removed my SCSI ROM and booted by floppy I could get an extra 16kb UMB block too, but that wouldn't be very practical for me. That would provide 896kb memory in total...and there are definetly XT systems out there that can do it.
 
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QD=Quarterdeck

Their program is called VIDRAM, although there are others out there; they use the video RAM on EGA and VGA adapters to extend conventional memory by up to 96K (736K) at the cost of extended graphics capability. If you have a monochrome adapter (i.e. no memory in this area) then *some* EMS cards *will* allow remapping EMS to that area.

As you've found, it is possible to have UMBs and EMS simultaneously with judicious settings of the QEXT options, as well as the HMA and some extended memory. And as you've also found, different EMS boards/drivers have differing restrictions regarding what can be mapped where, especially EMS3.x boards (even when using 4.0 drivers).

Qram can be a PITA to configure most effectively and Manifest does not always give you the full and best picture, and you will find software that doesn't like it; still, when it works and is stable it can certainly expand your 8088/80286 nicely.

Glad you're having fun!

Where'd you find Qram BTW?

mike
 
Ah, I see. I knew about VIDRAM, I just wasn't sure exactly how it worked. Infact, I believe you can use VIDRAM with a VGA card installed. I think it just disables everything except for the monochome text mode. However, I don't know if that's particularly useful for me (but I see how it might be good for people that don't need graphics). I should try it out though, just because I can.

I think I found QRAM 2.0 on some german FTP server about a year ago. I don't have the link, but if you want to know more send me a PM.
 
... in fact, you *need* a VGA or EGA adapter to use VIDRAM or equivalent.

PM on the way; doubt that I'll ever need it, but my version is 1.0 and I might as well update if possible. TIA,

m
 
The packaging, board printing, docs, and even device driver practically scream in your face I AM LIM EMS 4.0 so yes, I'm pretty sure :)
-----
Some 3.2 boards did ship with 4.0 drivers (as 4.0 compatible), so it's not as clear-cut as it may seem.

m
 
I'm guessing if it's silk screened onto the PCB, it probably does what it's supposed to. I guess it's just one of those boards that you can't move the page frame around on. I tried to find some information on how to configure it, but I didn't find what I was looking for.

I think for playing around the AST RAMpage is a pretty good card to have. It only holds 2mb, but it looks like you can do all sorts of crazy things with the page frame. I'm just basing this on some reading I did on the drivers. I've been trying to get QRAM onto my 5150 to play with, but it it doesn't have all the goodies the XT does so it's harder to get files on there. I think I'll be able to try it out tonight though.
 
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