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Interesting compiled list of ebay sales of old computers

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barythrin

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An explanation of the link = http://randoc.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/ebay-price-list-updated

The link I'm referring to = http://randoc.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/ebay-price-list-17032009-as-a-post/

So this is interesting. I can't fully see what data was used but I like and appreciate the effort this person put in to try and statistically track sale value of vintage/rare/old computers. As with any price guide I know it can't fully be accurate since it depends on the bidders but still, as a historical sample of actual data it's quite interesting to look at.

- John
 
Yeah lol so not only is it not 100% accurate but it also depends what the EURO is worth during that time. Google tells me right now 1 Euro = 1.3047 U.S. dollars. So any of those values *1.3 would be the guesstimate.
 
barythrin said:
Yeah lol so not only is it not 100% accurate but it also depends what the EURO is worth during that time. Google tells me right now 1 Euro = 1.3047 U.S. dollars. So any of those values *1.3 would be the guesstimate.
Click to expand...

LOL - that's a guesstimate alright !
It works OK for those who always use the Euro, but for us, the Euro has ranged from USD 1.59 to 1.26 during the last 12 months.
Take your pick because that's quite some range.
 
Yes, exactly what I wrote in that other thread. On the other hand, the whole eBay and other auction sites is one big lottery. A rare computer may one week fetch a very big amount, and the next week an identical one barely goes for the starting price.

I thought the regular Amiga 3000 and perhaps also 4000 would be so common they shouldn't appear on this list, but the sales figures tell a different story. Does the PET2001 entry only refer to the chicklet version or the "ultra-common" 2001N with full size keyboard? :)

Now, how many of the computers on his list do you own? Surprisingly enough, I kind of own ten of those systems. With "kind of", I count duplicates and related machines not on the list but which are equally or more rare than the one listed. Still, I'm not by far a big collector. I can probably find another 10 of those computers for sale locally / from other collectors if I had the cash and wanted to spend it. At least five of those ten I don't own but could acquire, I know for sure have been put up for sale and I might even have been asked to place a bid.
 
Well, with the 2001 I'm guessing it's probably including both. From what I can tell (maybe he'll pop over here as I just left him a comment with a link to the forums heh) he did was ebay searches so likely it's "Commodore 2001".

In the US I think every Amiga 3000 and 4000 I've seen gets bought, unless the seller started it off with something huge. Amiga 4000's are still out of my price range, so I have yet to play with one ever. I only have an Amiga 1200 from a friend who dissected his trying to fix it with an additional unit he had. Something went odd and he stopped, I have both (still disassembled) and need to get it back up but it's one of those system I could never justify the expense for. Plus he upgraded to the AmigaOne so he's running the current/latest Amiga stuff.

erm.. what I meant was yeah I'm not surprised at the sales/price of 3000/4000 gear. I found the top sold items to be interesting though. I didn't expect the Atari Falcon or Sinclair's to be up there.

I'll have to go through the list and do that system count. Certainly interesting as well.
- John
 
Hello,

@barythrin
Thanks for mentioning my blog!

> I can't fully see what data was used
I used (almost solely) the achieved Ebay prices at ebay.com, ebay.co.uk, ebay.de, ebay.it, ebay.es, and ebay.fr. If you know more sources of information I'd be happy to know them!

Please note that the post in my blog refers to a detailed Excel sheet where
there is an entry for every recorded sale containing the price, a date, the market, and some (hopefully relevant) comments.

> As with any price guide I know it can't fully be accurate since it depends on the bidders
Well, it depends on your definition of accuracy :) Doesn't a market price always depend on what the market participants are willing to pay??

Euros
I agree on the currency issue insofar as picking one currency leads always to the mentioned conversion problems when someone from another currency zone tries to interpret these values - but that would be the same if I would pick e.g. the US Dollar as a basis (with the admitted difference that you might be happier - but maybe not me :cool: ). However, in principle I always store a date for every sale I record, so if I could get a function from somewhere that gives me the conversion rate to a currency for a date the list could be automatically recalculated for a given currency. Hmm, that sounds interesting. Can somebody provide me this data (or even code for
Excel or OpenOffice)?

Amiga 3000/4000 prices
Apart from being a very attractive vintage computer I have the impression that the prices especially for 4000s are that high also because these models together with accelerator cards have still some respectable compute power at least for a vintage computer.

@carlsson

I thought the regular Amiga 3000 and perhaps also 4000 would be so common they shouldn't appear on this list, but the sales figures tell a different story.

Interestingly, AFAIK the Amigas are the only models where there are official sales numbers (published by Commodore Germany Marketing) for at least some models and at least some countries (http://www.c64-wiki.de/index.php/Amiga). As my criteria for being on the list I use the production number of the Sinclair QL (which shall be about 100'000). In these terms, the Amigas are indeed rare.

Does the PET2001 entry only refer to the chicklet version or the "ultra-common" 2001N with full size keyboard?

Currently, it refers to both, but the detailed listing of the sales on the Excel sheet lists whether they are chiclet or not. Interestingly, the majority of the sales were chiclet ones. I think non-chiclet is more common only if you count 3xxx and 4xxx models.

This having said, I currently collect PET 2001 serial numbers because I want to make some research on the production numbers of this model and because I never saw this information elsewhere. Currently I think that PET 2001s were rare-but-not-so-rare with an estimated number of about 60'000 counting all models.

machines not on the list but which are equally or more rare than the one listed
I am always very interested in knowing models which are rare and I always hope on discussions on this issue so I can extend the list. One restriction, though, that I use, is that I seldom add pure CP/M machines or business-only type of machines as there are so many of them.

- cyberfritz (the author of the cited blog)

www.randoc.wordpress.com
 
I have never seen a 1200/3000/4000 that didn't sell on ebay (except for those insane BIN ones for $1000).

Generally the A600 and A1200 Amigas seem to be much more common in europe, the 2000, 3000, 4000 seem to be more common in the US (but still pricey). A500 are common all over.

So you have the issues of the Euro bouncing around plus the local rarity aspect making the pricing pretty worthless.
 
cyberfritz said:
Euros
However, in principle I always store a date for every sale I record, so if I could get a function from somewhere that gives me the conversion rate to a currency for a date the list could be automatically recalculated for a given currency. Hmm, that sounds interesting. Can somebody provide me this data (or even code for
Excel or OpenOffice)?
Click to expand...


I use: http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/market/exchangerates.aspx
then click on Euro (in US or per US), and then on the chart at the right click on 1y to get to a better chart, and then move around that chart, and let the gridline provide the conversion rate for the particular week you're looking for.
 
cyberfritz said:
I am always very interested in knowing models which are rare and I always hope on discussions on this issue so I can extend the list.
Click to expand...
Well, in my case I don't own a Commodore P500 but I do own a B500. It is not quite as rare as the P500, rather somewhere inbetween a P500 and a 610 (or B128 in the US).

Also, I own both a vTech creatiVision video game and a vTech Laser 2001, the computer model. As you probably know, vTech made a lot of Laser computers, most Z80 and/or Apple compatible ones. The creatiVision and Laser 2001 however are different from that bunch, more like ColecoVision or Memotech MTX but with 6502 CPUs. The 2001 was also sold under the Salora brand in Finland, where it might be a miniscule bit more common, see Salora Manager.

I also own both a CGL and a Sord M5, both in boxes. While not being a common machine, I would expect a few more to have been sold than what you found in one year. Recently there was a guy in Italy selling one NOS Sord M5 every second week. His sales probably are in your data.

As for other auction sites, I'm sure we can help you find some. Both local sites associated with eBay (like Swedish site Tradera.com) and direct competitors. The upcoming site Chase The Chuckwagon comes to my mind as a place to keep an eye on. So far there may have been mostly video games (cartridges, tapes, disks) sold on that site, but eventually the hardware will also show up. This forum also has its own auction site, though not yet very active.

By the way, one reason why Amiga 4000 fetches big amounts appears to be because a lot of Amiga people still use these for daily computing, often upgraded though. It means apart from collectors you have die-hard Amiga fans battling for the same machines which inevitably will make prices go up. I can't think of any other vintage or semi-vintage computer where you could observe the same happening. Not even Mac zealots tend to go crazy about those old Performas and early Power Macs.
 
Mac people have been known to do some crazy upgrades to old powermacs, but there were millions of those made and most users moved onto newer models so the upgrades are not that expensive. There are upgrades I have for 68K macs that didn't cost that much, but would cost more then a car if they were for the Amiga.

Rarity plus popularity make Amiga gear pricey.
 
Interesting. Of ones on that list I have a OS Challenger 1P, SX 64, Pet 2001 (actually a CBM 3032), EACA Colour Genie and Sinclair QL.

I'd expected to see the Apple II there? I know the Apple IIe is fairly common but I would have thought the Apple II and II+ would had made collectable grade by now?

Tez
 
Hi
One you should include is the Olivetti M20. To my knowledge,
it was the only personal computer with a Z8000 in it.
They are not too common here in the US but more common
in Europe. On the Italian ebay, they seem to go for around
100 to 150 Euros someplace.
Dwight
 
I agree Tez. Apple II and Apple IIplus are collectible and just out of my price range for them still. IIe are pretty common although they get bids but probably not over $100 unless it's with a bunch of stuff and someone that lives near-by. Apple ///+ can fetch a good amount.

BTW, regardless of the end prices and he's right, these are actual sold items so for auction terms it's acceptable for actual market swings and value since they aren't just posts and posted sale prices with no hits. I know the argument on vintage price guides but atleast this is actively updated and has actual sales trend analysis. Really it's an awesome project if kept up.
 
Dwight: Wikipedia mentions unnamed Unix workstations using the Zilog Z8000. I'm not sure if you'd consider those personal computers or not. Olivetti seems to have made a whole series of M-computers with that CPU. Finally it is used in the Unix based Commodore 900, which though rather is a prototype.

For a broader view, you could collect final prices on common vintage computers too. It may not be interesting per se to know how much your average Commodore 64 sells for, but it would put things in perspective. Many of those rare machines may actually attract lower bids on average than some of the common ones that most people remember and like to get for nostalgic purposes. We automagically imagine common = cheap and rare = expensive but I don't think it always is that simple.
 
carlsson said:
For a broader view, you could collect final prices on common vintage computers too. It may not be interesting per se to know how much your average Commodore 64 sells for, but it would put things in perspective. Many of those rare machines may actually attract lower bids on average than some of the common ones that most people remember and like to get for nostalgic purposes. We automagically imagine common = cheap and rare = expensive but I don't think it always is that simple.
Click to expand...

You make a good point there Anders. On our local TRADEME site I've seen quite usual and rare machines go for a song or not sell at all. You need at least two people to want them to get the bidding going.

I don't take them because I've limited myself to certain classic models. I don't have the room to collect others. New Zealand is a very small market regarding vintage computers and I'm sure if they had been offered in the US or Europe they would have been snapped up.

Tez
 
Don't tell me if you come across a real oddball vintage computer starting at $1 with no bids, you won't pick it up because it is not on your list even if it will take virtually no space? :)
 
I will take a local free machine if I never used it and it looks interesting, but I won't pay for one unless I want/need it. If I get bored I will trade it for something I do want.

For the most part my massive acquiring days are probably over since the things I am missing tend to cost a bit of money, or are just rare.
 
carlsson said:
Don't tell me if you come across a real oddball vintage computer starting at $1 with no bids, you won't pick it up because it is not on your list even if it will take virtually no space? :)
Click to expand...

If it's in my own hometown I probably would. But I'm not in a main centre and rare and interesting machines don't come up here that often. Even a $1 machine would cost $NZ15-$NZ60 shipping.

Tez
 
carlsson said:
Dwight: Wikipedia mentions unnamed Unix workstations using the Zilog Z8000. I'm not sure if you'd consider those personal computers or not. Olivetti seems to have made a whole series of M-computers with that CPU. Finally it is used in the Unix based Commodore 900, which though rather is a prototype.

For a broader view, you could collect final prices on common vintage computers too. It may not be interesting per se to know how much your average Commodore 64 sells for, but it would put things in perspective. Many of those rare machines may actually attract lower bids on average than some of the common ones that most people remember and like to get for nostalgic purposes. We automagically imagine common = cheap and rare = expensive but I don't think it always is that simple.
Click to expand...

Hi
The Zilog machine was not exactly a personal computer. It was more of a rack mount
machine ( although it could sit on a desk ). The other Z8000 machines that
Olivetti made that used Z8000s were large boxes as well ( M30, M40 and M60 that I
know of ). The M20 was the only one that was small enough and packaged as
a PC like machine.
You are correct that people don't often see rare and price the same way.
I have a machine that is easily as rare or more rare than an Apple-1 but
it has no where near the market value. It is more fun to play with in my
opinion as well.
Dwight
 
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