offensive_Jerk
Veteran Member
I am kind of hankering an IBM 5150. What kind of prices can one expect to pay for a working unit?
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IBM 5150 prices?
- Thread starter offensive_Jerk
- Start date
I've got one (untested so far) that's about to be for sale. I was thinking about $40-$50 for just the system unit (no keyboard or display.)
Add the latter and they usually run about $100 or so.
Add the latter and they usually run about $100 or so.
offensive_Jerk
Veteran Member
After reading a little more, I think I would rather have a 5160 for the HDD support.
I thought the 5150 had that.
I thought the 5150 had that.
Yeah, that's about what I've been used to seeing although with some of the auctions of units with original (rev-a?) "16-64" motherboards going in the several grands it's pretty crazy. Generally I've seen them for $40-100 plus shipping for just the system. As others have/will point out a keyboard is worth a bit on the unit (actually funnily enough the keyboard alone can grab over $100) and the monitor is probably another $50ish (I haven't shopped for those so I'm guesstimating here).
Neither one comes with HDD support; that's totally supplied by a controller with its own BIOS. But I have both a 5150 and a 5155 (basically same motherboard as 5160) running MFM HDDs with 8-bit Western Digital controllers.
offensive_Jerk
Veteran Member
According to the IBM PC FAQ thread the 5150 does not have an "expansion chassis" which I'm assuming is where you mount the drive.
Also only the 3rd revision bios allows for bios extensions to allow booting from a HDD. I would probably wind up with an earlier version bios and be unable to boot from HDD.
Although, I could be wrong, just what I picked up from the thread.
Also only the 3rd revision bios allows for bios extensions to allow booting from a HDD. I would probably wind up with an earlier version bios and be unable to boot from HDD.
Although, I could be wrong, just what I picked up from the thread.
Yzzerdd
Veteran Member
Heh, the expansion chassis is the seperate unit you sometimes see on 5150's that adds additional expansion options: Two full-sized 5.25 bays for use with one or two HDD's, and some amount(4? not counting the required interface card??) of additional card expansion. The "without expansion unit" you saw means you can add in one HDD, even if you don't have the expansion unit (5165? I can't remember).
As for not being able to boot from the internal HDD unless you have a latter revision BIOS, I'm fairly certain thats true. Then again, my 5150 has no hard drive. It would be unauthenic for me to add one internally. Plus, I'd rather have two FDD's...If I had an external unit(and I do, without a cable), then I might be tempted to add in one of my many full-sized HDD's.
Oh, and if you add an HDD to your 5150, upgrade the PSU. I think your best option though is definately an XT. I've always wanted an XT-286 myself. Reason I say the XT would be better is because it'll likely have more memory, many had an HDD, better PSU, and of course it has more expansion capabilities due to added card slots. It sounds like you aren't interested so much as to if its original, but more on functionality, and the XT takes the cake on functionality.
--Ryan
As for not being able to boot from the internal HDD unless you have a latter revision BIOS, I'm fairly certain thats true. Then again, my 5150 has no hard drive. It would be unauthenic for me to add one internally. Plus, I'd rather have two FDD's...If I had an external unit(and I do, without a cable), then I might be tempted to add in one of my many full-sized HDD's.
Oh, and if you add an HDD to your 5150, upgrade the PSU. I think your best option though is definately an XT. I've always wanted an XT-286 myself. Reason I say the XT would be better is because it'll likely have more memory, many had an HDD, better PSU, and of course it has more expansion capabilities due to added card slots. It sounds like you aren't interested so much as to if its original, but more on functionality, and the XT takes the cake on functionality.
--Ryan
offensive_Jerk
Veteran Member
I guess an HDD wouldn't be so big an issue. Are they like Apple ][e's where you have to put a dos disk in for it to boot? Does it have basic or something in rom then?
Are you saying one of these:
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/ibm/5150/5150_A/IBM-5150_sn0192592_keyboard.jpg
Is worth $100?
Yzzerdd
Veteran Member
The 5150 and 5160 (as well as many other IBM machines) do have BASIC loaded in ROM. To start the computer, you insert a DOS boot disk and go from there. If you have a non-bootable HDD, you can access it's content once DOS is loaded. Typically, you can then take the DOS disk out of the drive and store it in it's sleeve, as your programs will be able to use the drive to find DOS commands. You can store programs and other files on the disk without any problems, in general.
--Ryan
--Ryan
Yzzerdd
Veteran Member
That is what it may have been worth 1-2 years ago. Back then, a complete IBM 5150 could easily fetch $300-$500 on eBay. A Macintosh Portable might have gotten around $200-$250. Nowadays, a complete IBM 5150 is lucky to get $75. Hell, probably lucky to get $50. All we can do is hoarde what we can and wait it out. Prices will rise again.
--Ryan
Not into hoarding, but I did get that keyboard a while back for $5 at the recycler and used it on my XT clone (keyboard is in mint condition). Typing on it is different from my model M's because of the layout (it's a model F isn't it?).
offensive_Jerk
Veteran Member
haha, that part was pretty funny for some reason.
Been watching too much of that hoarders show I guess.
Anyway......
Micom 2000
Veteran Member
I must be missing something here. I've had many 5150s over the years and each one had an HDD. Granted that the HDD was usually 10 or 20 mb. The standard early 5150 came with the the double size FDD but did have the option of a single size FDD and an HDD, altho IIRC wasn't supplied by IBM, and of course the cassette interface. One of the main draw-backs was the 5-slot motherboard as compared with the XTs 8. Perhaps the 16-64 motherboard BIOS didn't support HDDs but I haven't seen any commentary which says that.
I still have 2 5150s, I sold another (with a 20mb HDD, about a year ago). One is standard (with an HDD) and the other is updated with the INTEL 386 On-Board upgrade usually used on a 5160 or 5170. If one wants total authenticity then the 16-64 Motherboard and the double-height FDD, as well as a Radio-Shack cassette player (since IBM didn't didn't supply them) would be the way, but limited, to go. Most people equipped their PC with 2 floppies at least, or an HDD, and ignored the cassette port. Then there was also the option of an external FDD which required a card. And of course the PCs, and the XTs for that matter, had woefully inadequate power supplies.
Lawrence
I still have 2 5150s, I sold another (with a 20mb HDD, about a year ago). One is standard (with an HDD) and the other is updated with the INTEL 386 On-Board upgrade usually used on a 5160 or 5170. If one wants total authenticity then the 16-64 Motherboard and the double-height FDD, as well as a Radio-Shack cassette player (since IBM didn't didn't supply them) would be the way, but limited, to go. Most people equipped their PC with 2 floppies at least, or an HDD, and ignored the cassette port. Then there was also the option of an external FDD which required a card. And of course the PCs, and the XTs for that matter, had woefully inadequate power supplies.
Lawrence
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modem7
10k Member
"double-height FDD"? I'm sure you meant full-height.
The 5150 motherboard BIOS is devoid of hard disk support. For the first two BIOS revisions (which do not support ROM BIOS extensions), a hard drive could be added, but one needed a special boot diskette. See the custom solution at http://www.selectric.org/old5150/index.html for an example. Think of it as 'hard disk support software' on the diskette.
With the move to the 64-256K motherboard, a third revision of the BIOS was released, and that BIOS supports ROM BIOS extensions. ROM BIOS extensions allowed the diskette based 'hard disk support software' to be moved to a ROM on the hard disk controller.
In summary:
* All 5150 (and 5160) BIOS' don't support hard disks.
* The BIOS' supplied on the 16-64K 5150 motherboard forces one to use a custom 'boot diskette' based hard disk solution.
* The BIOS' supplied on the 64-256K 5150 motherboard allows the use of a hard disk controller that contains a ROM BIOS extension.
IBM released a BIOS upgrade kit for owners of 5150s with 16-64K motherboards. It appears to have been a common upgrade.
Yzzerdd
Veteran Member
No article I've ever read, released by IBM, has mentioned an option to put in an HDD in a 5150. I'm sure there were third party upgrades, but are you sure about a factory option to install non-IBM hardware? Also, the external FDD did not require a card other than the standard FDD card, which supported two internal drives and one or two external drives.
--Ryan
VintageComputerman
Veteran Member
Since I found me a working 5150 and have done research, I find they didn't come with a hard drive. You had to buy your own as well as video card.
Back in the mid-80s we actually owned a 5150 with a Seagate ST-225 hard drive. I can actually still remember the computer guy coming to do the upgrade (I was about 6 years old at the time). It was a semi-involved procedure. I don't recall whether or not he had to swap the power supply (the early 5150s didn't have enough power to run 2x floppy + hard drive) and/or BIOS (only the Rev. 3 BIOS supports cards with Option ROMs), but it was definitely done. I remember the guy (really nice fellow) humoring me with computer talk while he was working, and having a discussion regarding which part of the computer was 'the most important'. I naievely answered that it must be the CRT, since without that one couldn't see what was going on, but he gently explained that the CPU was where all the work got done.
After he was finished, we had a 5150 with 1 full-height floppy, 1 half-height floppy, and 1 half-height ST-225 20MB hard drive. At the same time, he installed an AST SixPakPlus card to take us up to 640KB memory. I can still remember asking my dad what that upgrade meant in practical terms. His answer? "Unlimited size spreadsheets".
He was a big fan of Ashton-Tate's Frameworks...
The XT (5160) was the first machine to come stock with a hard drive. I remember wishing that we had an XT, but at the time didn't realize that since we had basically turned our 5150 into a 5160, an upgrade would have been fairly pointless...
Ah, youth.
After he was finished, we had a 5150 with 1 full-height floppy, 1 half-height floppy, and 1 half-height ST-225 20MB hard drive. At the same time, he installed an AST SixPakPlus card to take us up to 640KB memory. I can still remember asking my dad what that upgrade meant in practical terms. His answer? "Unlimited size spreadsheets".
He was a big fan of Ashton-Tate's Frameworks...The XT (5160) was the first machine to come stock with a hard drive. I remember wishing that we had an XT, but at the time didn't realize that since we had basically turned our 5150 into a 5160, an upgrade would have been fairly pointless...
Ah, youth.
I'm not sure why or where I read it but the ones that were going for a bunch ($100+ and yes as it was pointed out it was a few years ago) had F1-F10 on the left and had to have a SysRq key. I really don't know why or what the big deal was. No system request key and it wasn't worth a ton. Ditto if it wasn't the left side function keys. I don't know if it was just because it was the original IBM PC keyboard and the others are XT/AT or what.