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Extending an 8-bit ISA bus

southbird

Experienced Member
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Sep 11, 2009
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For some machines, e.g. a Tandy 1000 RL, it would just be so great to have more than just the one slot they provide. In my 5150, I wish I had just one or two more slots. While I see industrial gadgets for bus extension in those nice high near $1000 marks, I'm wondering how hard is this to do electrically? This wouldn't be for life and death, just something that is basically stable and provides additional expansion. I have only a tiny bit of EE education, so I'm a bit aware of signal problems over distance but never too good at really pinpointing where they occur.

The immediate thing I think of is just chaining additional connectors in parallel and the magic of decoding will be able to talk to the cards, but I'm assuming there must be at least one more piece to the puzzle (because it sure can't be that easy for the industrial guys to stay in business.) Besides probably needing its own power supply, what kind of troubles might something like this run into? Would it pretty much require some kind of "repeater" to push signals across?
 
For some machines, e.g. a Tandy 1000 RL, it would just be so great to have more than just the one slot they provide. In my 5150, I wish I had just one or two more slots. While I see industrial gadgets for bus extension in those nice high near $1000 marks, I'm wondering how hard is this to do electrically? This wouldn't be for life and death, just something that is basically stable and provides additional expansion. I have only a tiny bit of EE education, so I'm a bit aware of signal problems over distance but never too good at really pinpointing where they occur.

The immediate thing I think of is just chaining additional connectors in parallel and the magic of decoding will be able to talk to the cards, but I'm assuming there must be at least one more piece to the puzzle (because it sure can't be that easy for the industrial guys to stay in business.) Besides probably needing its own power supply, what kind of troubles might something like this run into? Would it pretty much require some kind of "repeater" to push signals across?

So something like an IBM PC Expansion Unit?...
 
i believe you don't have to do anything special electrically. if you built one, you should just be able to wire a bunch of ISA slots into the tandy's single one with all the pins in parallel. could be wrong, maybe one of the smart people here can chime in...
 
i believe you don't have to do anything special electrically. if you built one, you should just be able to wire a bunch of ISA slots into the tandy's single one with all the pins in parallel. could be wrong, maybe one of the smart people here can chime in...

Yeah, I'm thinking that's the case too. And most risers from low-profile machines typically looked like they just wired a bunch of parallel slots out of the mobo. Like if I were to just jury rig something like this into the Tandy bus slot, would it "just work"?

So something like an IBM PC Expansion Unit?...

Exactly. If those were more plentiful, I'd probably just have a few of those... :)
 
For some machines, e.g. a Tandy 1000 RL, it would just be so great to have more than just the one slot they provide.

I'm not familiar with this machine but it's staggering that any firm would bring out a PC-compatible machine with only ONE expansion slot! Even the PC-junior had three.

Tez
 
It's hard to say without knowing what the Tandy's driving the ISA signals with. You'd probably be okay adding just one or two additional cards, but more than that, you'd have to start looking at driver fanouts.

The IBM expansion interface used a separate transceiver card in the host system as well as the expansion box--and, ISTR, added a wait state or two for expansion bus cards.
 
Ask mbbrutman about this. I believe he was somewhat successful building one for his PCjr, which is very similar to your Tandy1000. The biggest obstacle is obviously going to be interference. You're going to need to do some work with grounding and line filters, and you'll probably be limited by length. Make any extensions as short as possible.
 
I'm not familiar with this machine but it's staggering that any firm would bring out a PC-compatible machine with only ONE expansion slot! Even the PC-junior had three.

Well, I believe the justification is when you look at the amount of equipment the Tandy RL came stock with: Onboard video (CGA compatible with extended PCJr-like video modes), Floppy controller, XT-IDE controller, a serial port, parallel port, PS/2 style keyboard and mouse, and its special 3-voice + DAC sound system. So, really, what would you need that one slot for? Kind of the question of what ONE PART would you like to add?

But I'd rather not make it that hard a choice. :D

If the BASIC IDEA is just adding slots in parallel to the Tandy's, I may do well just experimenting with some well-grounded, well-shielded, short PCBs of some sort. If I could get three slots out of it I think I'd be happy.
 
I'm not familiar with this machine but it's staggering that any firm would bring out a PC-compatible machine with only ONE expansion slot! Even the PC-junior had three.

The IBM PS/2 Model 33 had one ISA slot (usually filled with a four-slot PCMCIA adapter or a NIC). The stock IBM expansion for the Model L40SX only had one ISA slot (there was an aftermarket unit that had a full complement). And the expansion unit was for very short cards (5250/3270 emulation, or NIC).

On the 8086 and 286 versions of the Model 25 there were two ISA slots (the 25SX had one reversed slot in addition, designed to hold one of two NIC adapters, Token Ring or Ethernet). The PS/2 P70 had two microchannel slots, with size limits on the lower card. Systems with at least three slots probably aren´t worth mentioning, and could be fairly numerous.
 
I'm not familiar with this machine but it's staggering that any firm would bring out a PC-compatible machine with only ONE expansion slot! Even the PC-junior had three.

Look through some of the TH99 motherboard diagrams. One expansion slot on 8088 and 286 systems wasn't terribly unusual.
 
Anonymous Coward has a good memory ... my writeup on the PCjr bus to ISA bus adapter can be found here: http://brutman.com/PCjr/pcjr_isa_adapter.html

Southbird: I would look for these books:

"Interfacing to the IBM Personal Computer, 2nd Edition", Lewis C. Eggebrecht
"ISA System Architecture, 3rd Edition", Tom Shanley and Don Anderson

The first book explicitly deals with extending the ISA bus to a homebrew expansion unit.

Tezza - the slots on the Jr are limited in function. There is one for a 64K memory card, 1 more an internal modem, and one for a diskette controller. All three slots are different and only support the one specific card. For real expansion on a Jr, you have to use the sidecar bus.
 
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