Need Help with IBM 5151 and 5160 Video

[Aprules2]

I was at the town recycling center a few years ago and found 2 IBM XT's one 5151 and one 5160, there was also a "Princeton Graphics Systems HX12E" monitor with them. I brought them home and tried them out they both worked and booted to basic. The cards that were in them were AST 6 Pak Plus, Hayes Modem from 1983, Parallel card, Futurex Encrypter, A big card that just says color graphics with a 9 pin port and a RCA jack on the back, One had an IBM controller card, the other had a NEC. I had an old busted AT&T computer that had an MFM hard drive and controler card I tried to put that in there when I turned it on it had no video. I took the card out right away and turned it back on still no video. Only 1 of the 2 computers computer had a video card by the way. I took the video card and put it in the other computer still no video. So I dont think I blew the mother board. I tried removing all the cards but the video and still got nothing. At the time I was working doing computer support and they were throwing out their old junk I found these video cards with the 9 pin connector on them but I dont know if they work.

Chips Quad EGA Quad Ram it has a toggle Switch and to rca ports it also has a bunch of dip switches.

Video 7 Pac Tel

One with no name or anythign on it just a huge silver cover over the main chip that says:
89x9991ESD
IBM 14 PQ
188210071c

I also found what looks like a CGA to VGA adapter that allows you to plug the monitor into a VGA port.

I tried all of them and got nothing, then I tried using the adapter and hooking up the monitor to a 386 I had and it didnt work either. I also tried putting all the video cards in there except the big "Color Graphics" one because it was too long, and none of them worked. Is there a way to test the monitor? Are the cards I am using not compatable? Everything I have is VGA or SVGA so I dont have another monitor to try and I dont have any known working cards to swap.

 

[Lorne]

I was at the town recycling center a few years ago and found 2 IBM XT's one 5151 and one 5160, there was also a "Princeton Graphics Systems HX12E" monitor with them. I brought them home and tried them out they both worked and booted to basic.

Back up, and slow down.
When you brought them home and booted them to basic, which monitor were you using?
The 5151, or the Princeton Graphics Systems HX12E?
Is the Priceton Graphics a color or monochrome monitor?
I don't know about the XT's, but I know that you have to change the DIP switch settings on a PC mobo, to set the type of monitor you're using.
Did you check those first?

 

[Aprules2]

I only have the one monitor the 5151 is actually the model of the IBM XT I am using. As far as the monitor I have no idea if its color, all I ever did was boot basic and play around a little. I never got farther then that.

 

[Fallo]

I was at the town recycling center a few years ago and found 2 IBM XT's one 5151 and one 5160, there was also a "Princeton Graphics Systems HX12E" monitor with them. I brought them home and tried them out they both worked and booted to basic. The cards that were in them were AST 6 Pak Plus, Hayes Modem from 1983, Parallel card, Futurex Encrypter, A big card that just says color graphics with a 9 pin port and a RCA jack on the back

It's hard to understand your post, but I'll do the best I can. The big card with the RCA jack is an original IBM CGA card. The Princeton monitor is probably a CGA one.

One had an IBM controller card, the other had a NEC. I had an old busted AT&T computer that had an MFM hard drive and controler card I tried to put that in there when I turned it on it had no video. I took the card out right away and turned it back on still no video.

Must be an AT&T 6300. Those have enhanced CGA with 640x400 resolution. It seems that you were trying to put the IBM CGA card in the AT&T (?) If so, that won't work because I don't think you can disable the onboard video.

Only 1 of the 2 computers computer had a video card by the way. I took the video card and put it in the other computer still no video. So I dont think I blew the mother board. I tried removing all the cards but the video and still got nothing.

If I understand this correctly, one of the XTs had no video card and you put the CGA card in it and got nothing. You need to make sure the motherboard DIP switches are set correctly for that to work.

At the time I was working doing computer support and they were throwing out their old junk I found these video cards with the 9 pin connector on them but I dont know if they work.

Chips Quad EGA Quad Ram it has a toggle Switch and to rca ports it also has a bunch of dip switches.

This appears to be a Quadram EGA Plus. It can use Hercules, CGA, or EGA graphics, but I don't know the switch settings for it.

Video 7 Pac Tel

Video 7 made a lot of different cards. I don't know anything about this particular one.

One with no name or anythign on it just a huge silver cover over the main chip that says:
89x9991ESD
IBM 14 PQ
188210071c

That's not a video card at all. It's an IBM Token Ring network adapter.

I also found what looks like a CGA to VGA adapter that allows you to plug the monitor into a VGA port.

I doubt that that's an adapter to connect a CGA monitor to VGA. CGA and VGA use completely different video and sync signals, and it would take a lot more than a simple adapter to use one with the other.

I tried all of them and got nothing, then I tried using the adapter and hooking up the monitor to a 386 I had and it didnt work either. I also tried putting all the video cards in there except the big "Color Graphics" one because it was too long

It likely would have worked with the Princeton monitor. The others are either not a video card (the Token Ring adapter), not compatible with CGA (the Video 7 is likely VGA), or require the right switch settings (the Quadram).

I only have the one monitor the 5151 is actually the model of the IBM XT I am using. As far as the monitor I have no idea if its color, all I ever did was boot basic and play around a little. I never got farther then that.

If it's a color card of any kind, typing SCREEN 1 in BASIC will put you into CGA graphics mode (type SCREEN 0 to go back to text mode). On a monochrome card, you'll get an Illegal Function Call message.

 

[Aprules2]

I apologize I'm not the best at explaining things, hopefully this clears thigns up a little. I found the 2 PCs and the monitor in the recycling center, the XT 5151 had the large IBM video card in it (The one that just said Color Graphics on it), the XT 5160 didn't have a video card at all. I took them home and turned the 5151 and the monitor on and they loaded basic everything worked fine. Then I took the video card out of the 5151 and put it in the 5160 and it also worked fine. After some tinkering and finding out how they worked, I tried to put the MFM hard drive and controller card from the AT&T PC in my 5151, and that's when I lost video.After that I took the ibm video card out of the 5151 and put it in the 5160 and still didnt get any video. So I started rummaging through my stuff and tried all those different cards to see if I just burned out the original video card. When that didn't work I had an old 386 that I tried putting the video cards in to try and test them. But that didn't work either. The IBM card was to long to fit in the case so I couldn't test it. So as of now I'm not sure if I just fried the original video card or did something to the monitor.

 

[Jorg]

Wow.

Maybe its best to seperate everything and make a list of what you got - then how you want to make use of it.

"and found 2 IBM XT's one 5151 and one 5160"

The 5151 is an IBM monitor, monochrome. So it can't be a computer.
Look at the back, near the power supply.
Did you find an 5150 (IBM PC) and an 5160 (IBM XT)?
Please list all component seperately if you can..

I have a QuadRam QuadEGA card, and have the settings. But please go step by step..

 

[Aprules2]

OK I figured out why I thought the one desktop was a 5151. I read the gray sticker that says auxiliary power to 5151 not the metal square that has the model #.

When I got both computers they worked fine I was able to load dos from a floppy.

Desktop 1
IBM 5271
Color Graphics card
NEC Controller card
Ast 6 Pak Memory expansion card
Hayes Modem
1 360k IBM floppy
Parallel Card
Encrypter card

Desktop 2
IBM 5160
No Video card (it was missing when I got it)
Nec Controller card
AST 6 Pak Memory expansion card
Hayes Modem
Parallel Card
1 360k floppy
Toshiba MFM hard drive controller card
Encrytpter card

Monitor
Princeton Graphics System
Model: HX12E

I found some info on the monitor:

PGS HX-12E

Princeton Graphic Systems offers a line of high-resolution RGB monitors tailored for IBM PC and compatible systems. The HX-12E is an enhanced version of the company's initial product, the HX-12. The big improvement is that it can be used with either the regular IBM color graphics board or the newly-introduced IBM Enhanced Color Graphics Adapter.

The 12" HX-12E displays 16 colors with a resolution of 640 x 200 pixels at 15.75 KHz (the regular graphics board) or 64 colors with a resolution of 640 x 350 pixels at 22 KHz (the Enhanced Color Graphics Adapter). The dot pitch is a super-sharp 0.28mm--much, much better than the 0.43mm of the IBM Color Display.

Thus, it should not be a surprise to learn that the HX-12E passed our monitor torture test (using the regular graphics board). In fact, this is an exceptional monitor. Even the text resolution of 25 lines of 80 characters proves to be superb. We quickly switched over from the IBM Color Display to the PGS HX-12E.

Of course, high resolution commands a high price. At $785, the HX-12E is certainly not cheap. In fact, it represents overkill when used with a regular graphics board. However, if you plan to purchase the IBM Enhanced Grahpics Adapter, by all means head straight for a PGS dealer.

Princeton Graphics Systems, 170 Wall St., Princeton, NJ 08540. (609) 683-1660, (800) 221-1490.


Spare Video Cards
These Cards were found in a box of stuff getting thrown out at work and I have no idea if they are good or not.

Chips Quad EGA Quad Ram - it has a toggle Switch and two RCA ports it also has a bunch of dip switches.

Video 7 Pac Tel Has dip switches

What happened to Desktop #1
I took an old hard drive and controller card I had, and put them in Desktop #1, once I did that I got no video. I tried putting the 2 spare card in it and still had no video.

PC#2
In the past PC#2 worked fine with the Video card from Desktop #1. After I could not get any video on Desktop #1, I took the video card out and put it in Desktop#2. Now no video on that one either. I then tried the spare cards in Desktop#2 and still no video.

So basically I am not getting any video no matter what I do. Am I right that by switching the video cards from 1 machine to the other, proves I didnt do damage to the mother board on desktop #1? My guess is some how I burnt out the monitor, I want to know what everyone else thinks, so I can get the parts I need and make at least 1 PC work.

Incase anyone is still confused I am also putting pictures on photo bucket.
Pictures

 

[per]

So basically I am not getting any video no matter what I do. Am I right that by switching the video cards from 1 machine to the other, proves I didnt do damage to the mother board on desktop #1? My guess is some how I burnt out the monitor, I want to know what everyone else thinks, so I can get the parts I need and make at least 1 PC work.

Incase anyone is still confused I am also putting pictures on photo bucket.
Pictures

It sounds like you may have blown the powersupply with the MFM hard drive. Does the fan in PC#1 spinn at all when the power is turned on? If so, is there any way for you to test the powerlines (black wires are ground, everything else should be 5v, 12v, -5v or -12v relative to ground)?

About PC#2: Check Sw1 number 5 and 6 (Sw1 is located about on the middle of the motherboard). It may be that it was previously used with another kind of display adapter than the CGA (Color Graphics Adapter). Sw1 nr 5 and 6 should either be "On-Off" or "Off-On".

The adapter you have is to connect some really old VGA cards to normal VGA monitors. Some early (Almost-)VGA-signal-compatible graphics cards used the old 9-pin Dshell connector instead of the 15-pin VGA connector introduced in 1987. One example is the IBM PGC, but IIRC, cards like the MCGA are also included in the list.

I don't think you got any cards the adapter will work on, and I strongly suggest that you DON'T try it with any of your cards either.

NEC controller card is the floppy disk controller, the "encrypter card" looks like a hard-drive-on-a-card.

 

[Jorg]

Nice post and pictures!

Basically, both machines should be the same. The 5271 should be an 5160 with some extras to function as a mainframe terminal - meaning special graphics card, comms card, keyboard.
It seems they are no longer there, so functionally its an 5160.

It looks to me that also that Video Seven graphics card is EGA, which means your monitor should work with all three videocards without problems.
That is, if the monitor is ok - and getting a new one for that will not be easy. You cannot use a VGA monitor with those three cards. The WD VGA card might work in 8 bit.
If you do not attach the monitor to the computer, turn it on and turn contrast etc on full, do you see anything?

However, as Per says you need to get all the switches right.
Mainboard switches for both machines:
http://www.electricgypsy.net/computers/ibm_xt.php

Switches for the Quadram Card:
http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/P-R/QUADRAM-EGA-QUADEGA.html

Video 7, not sure.

Checking the power supply (fan), very good idea, then add only the video card and try to boot, step by step adding other cards.

Cool modem by the way, and an almost fully stocked Sixpack.
Encryptor card seems to be just that, probably you can't do anything with it, but cool nevertheless...

 

[Aprules2]

Im pretty sure the power supply works because when I start the machine up it reads the floppy drive trying to find an OS. I turn the monitor on and messed with both the brightness and contrast and I saw no changes in it. I had the video card from Desktop #1 working in Desktop #2 before I tried to install the Hard Drive. So I'm pretty sure the dip switches are right for the mother board, Im going to double check them tonight. Also I checked the dip switches for the Quadram Quad EGA but there for a QuadEGA+ and I dont have all the jumpers they show. If the monitor is bad what are my options?

 

[Fallo]

Im pretty sure the power supply works because when I start the machine up it reads the floppy drive trying to find an OS. I turn the monitor on and messed with both the brightness and contrast and I saw no changes in it.

If you turn the brightness all the way up, you should see flyback lines on the screen. If the monitor is functioning properly, you should hear static crackling when you turn the power on or off, and be able to feel it on the screen. I somehow doubt that a hard disk overloading the PSU could blow out the monitor. If that happened, I'd tend to think that you'd get a popping sound and smoke.

The Encryptor card was used for secure bank and credit-card transactions.

I had the video card from Desktop #1 working in Desktop #2 before I tried to install the Hard Drive. So I'm pretty sure the dip switches are right for the mother board, Im going to double check them tonight. Also I checked the dip switches for the Quadram Quad EGA but there for a QuadEGA+ and I dont have all the jumpers they show.

The DIP switches on the back of EGA cards set the monitor type (don't know what the jumpers do). For the original IBM EGA card, the settings would be as follows (I assume they're the same on clones):

SW1 SW2 SW3 SW4 Display Type

OFF OFF ON OFF Monochrome (monochrome monitor)
ON OFF OFF ON Color 40x25 (CGA monitor)
OFF OFF OFF ON Color 80x25 (CGA monitor)
ON ON ON OFF Enhanced Color - Normal Mode (EGA monitor)
OFF ON ON OFF Enhanced Color - Enhanced Mode (EGA monitor)

I'm not sure what the difference between normal and enhanced mode is.

 

[Aprules2]

With the brightness all the way up I don't get anything on the screen. I turn it on and hear that whining sound you're supposed to hear but really quiet. When I power up the PC the whine gets slightly louder. But no fly lines and no static. I also tried taking a screw driver and sliding it across the pins so see if maybe I could create some kind of static on the screen I got nothing.

 

[Aprules2]

So what does the Encryptor card do?

 

[Jorg]

"Also I checked the dip switches for the Quadram Quad EGA but they are for a QuadEGA+"

Yes, that is right. I think I have exactly the same card as you do, so there are 6 switches instead of 4.
The first four are the same. Then, you have only four settings left to try. I believe I set my card to EGA 350 and the the last two in the off position- but I'd have to check (can't get to it now).
(Duh.... google Quadram QuadEGA, and the first link is (drumm roll) this forum, with a post from me where I wrote it all..)
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=13853

If your monitor is toast - I think best option is to use a common VGA monitor and try if that VGA card works in an 8 bit slot. It will be probably easier to get an 8 bit compatible VGA card than an EGA monitor, so then atleast you have video while searching for an EGA monitor..

What the Encryptor Card does? Well, that is secret, of course :D
Google for Futurex Encryptor Card and you'll get some hints, like this http://www.blueclover.com/index.php..._international_push_for_newest_client_Futurex

 

[Aprules2]

I tried the card out today but got nothing. I looked at eBay for an 8 bit VGA card but prices were kinda crazy do you know where I can find one reasonably?

 

[per]

I tried the card out today but got nothing. I looked at eBay for an 8 bit VGA card but prices were kinda crazy do you know where I can find one reasonably?

A lot (I would say about 4 out of 5) of the 16-bit VGA cards WILL work in 8-bit machines. Some will be able to autodetect the bus type, and some others requires a jumper to be changed in order to be used in an 8-bit bus.

The 16-bit VGA card you pictured should be capable of running in an 8-bit bus. Try it with Sw1 nr.4 "Off" (on the VGA card), and Sw1 nr.5 and nr.6 both "On" (on the motherboard).

 

[Aprules2]

On that video card as of now the switches are 1 off 2 on 3 off 4 on. Should I change any of the others or just #1?

 

[Fallo]

With the brightness all the way up I don't get anything on the screen. I turn it on and hear that whining sound you're supposed to hear but really quiet. When I power up the PC the whine gets slightly louder. But no fly lines and no static.

If that's the case, there's no high voltage going to the picture tube. The whining sound you hear is normal; it comes from the deflection yoke. You may have toasted the flyback transformer, although as I said, I can't imagine how putting a hard disk in the computer and overloading the power supply could do that.

 

[per]

On that video card as of now the switches are 1 off 2 on 3 off 4 on. Should I change any of the others or just #1?

Try to set 4 to off.

As I said earlier, also make sure to set both of the motherboard switches nr 5 and 6 to on.

 

[fibrewire]

Aprules2 i have a VGA card out of an IBM XT 5160 you can have. I'll even mail it to you free of charge! It will work with any old LCD that has a VGA connector.

Oh, when i was 13-14 years old, i got a sweet 486 board from a friend. I connected the two power cables to the motherboard, and realized that the ground wires (black wires) needed to be together instead of apart on the motherboard. I had already turned it on, and cooked the board. That was my lesson that the ground wires on P5 and P6 needed to be together.

This IBM XT 5160 wiki page will help you troubleshoot those pesky dip switches http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/IBM_PC_XT_(5160)#Switch_Settings