does anyone remember Jane for the Apple // family?

[jconger]

I found this box with my Apple //e. It has the Jane software and a proprietary mouse. I think I remember my neighbor and I getting Jane as a special deal at Microcenter in Columbus, Ohio.

It has 3 5.25" floppies, including one labeled "Jane Data". I remember using it and being impressed that they could do a GUI on an Apple //e, but AppleWorks was already my workhorse, so I wasn't very interested. I think it might have been copy protected.

Did anyone else ever use Jane? Was my special deal likely to be the close out for the company's products as it went out of business? Google only found me some references to "Jane 128" for the Commodore 128.

Jim

 

[magnusfalkirk]

View attachment 3385 View attachment 3384

I found this box with my Apple //e. It has the Jane software and a proprietary mouse. I think I remember my neighbor and I getting Jane as a special deal at Microcenter in Columbus, Ohio.

It has 3 5.25" floppies, including one labeled "Jane Data". I remember using it and being impressed that they could do a GUI on an Apple //e, but AppleWorks was already my workhorse, so I wasn't very interested. I think it might have been copy protected.

Did anyone else ever use Jane? Was my special deal likely to be the close out for the company's products as it went out of business? Google only found me some references to "Jane 128" for the Commodore 128.

Jim

This looks vaguely familiar to me. I might have had a copy in the mid 80's when I was stationed in West Germany. If I did I don't remember any mouse with the copy I used. I seem to remember using the joystick with it.

Dean

 

[jconger]

I just found another box, this time just the software. It works with a joystick instead of a mouse as you remembered it.

Jim

 

[magnusfalkirk]

I just found another box, this time just the software. It works with a joystick instead of a mouse as you remembered it.

Jim

Cool. anyway you could make images of the joystick version and make it available to anyone that might want a copy by uploading it to Asimov?

Dean

 

[jconger]

I tried the first copy I had, and the grey system disk has blotches... must be the fungus I've heard of on floppies. The second copy's grey system disk looks OK, but I couldn't get Jane Write to open a sample document. I'll have install ADTpro and then try to image with it. It's a non-standard file system at least because I can't catalog it or image with ShrinkIt. ADTpro should not care unless it is copy protected -- may not be because the manual tells you how to back it up with its own copy program.

Jim

 

[ahm]

I don't remember Jane, but I do remember a program called "Judy".
It's kind of a personal information manager.

 

[tezza]

I tried the first copy I had, and the grey system disk has blotches... must be the fungus I've heard of on floppies.

Be careful using that. In fact, if you can visibly see grey botches I wouldn't try to spin it in a disk drive. It is probably degredation (it could indeed be a fungus) and you're likely to coat the heads with oxide, which will then cut a grove in that disk, then any other disk you might insert afterwards.

At least that has been my experience.

Tez

 

[jconger]

Good point. I had checked some disks in the past and found nothing worrisome, but now I realize I have to be very careful to check each disk before I use it.

I also haven't cleaned my Disk ][ heads for well, a couple of decades. I'm planning on a grand imaging effort, so I think it would be a good idea to clean the heads first. Luckily there's a YouTube video on how to clean the head on a Disk ][ drive linked from the ADTpro web site. I used to use cleaning disks, but with the video showing me what to expect, I should have no problems doing it manually.

Jim

 

[jconger]

I finally had time to clean the heads on my Disk ][ drives. Actually, one is genuine Apple and the other is a Mitac clone. It was striking just how similar the clone is to the original. The motor is different and the analog board is different. The analog board has the same labeled test points, but with a completely different layout and chip count. Amazingly, no crud at all on either drive.

Next step, ADTpro. Had to make a slight modification to the shell script to start it (checks OS for Linux to load the 32 bit Linux rxtx but does not check the arch for 64 bit to load the 64 bit version), but I was able to do the serial boot strap into a running ProDOS without problems.

Can't receive a disk, though, so I haven't been able to transfer the ADTpro bootable floppy. Baud rate doesn't seem to matter, it looks like I see a line of X's indicating failures after it writes buffered data to disk. It's as if the flow control back to the Linux machine is not working and data is lost. I was using a hardware serial port on the Linux machine and I tried a good USB serial port with the same results.

I think I can send a disk without any problems, but that is not likely to require any flow control. Come to think of it, neither does the boot strap, it uses "pacing" to slwo things down for the monitor to interpret as it is sending binary data.

I'm using a cable I made myself back in the college days so I could use the Apple //e as a terminal for my roommates Tandy 1000. I used to run ctty com1 and run PSPICE from the Apple so I didn't have to sit at his desk. I might have a flow control wiring problem in that cable. Time to look for another cable. I should have one in my cable bin.

More news as it happens.

Jim

 

[david__schmidt]

Next step, ADTpro. Had to make a slight modification to the shell script to start it (checks OS for Linux to load the 32 bit Linux rxtx but does not check the arch for 64 bit to load the 64 bit version), but I was able to do the serial boot strap into a running ProDOS without problems.

Thanks for that - I'll see about better 64-bit detection on Linux.

Can't receive a disk, though, so I haven't been able to transfer the ADTpro bootable floppy. Baud rate doesn't seem to matter, it looks like I see a line of X's indicating failures after it writes buffered data to disk.

Ok, it sounds like it's communicating fine; it's just failing to write on the new disk. Is the disk that you're attempting to write to 1) formatted, 2) write-enabled, and 3) double-density (not high-density)?

I was using a hardware serial port on the Linux machine and I tried a good USB serial port with the same results.

Yep, it doesn't sound like communications is the problem here.

 

[jconger]

Thanks for including the x86_64 binaries for the rxtx package! One minor fix to the shell script, which was very clear, and it just worked. I expect a few problems here and there with 64 bit and this was no more significant than tweaking a Makefile for doing a build.

I just commented out the 32 bit library directory and added the 64 bit. I'll go back and put a proper if/then/else using uname -a around that and send you the tested-on-64bit results.

I used a formatted disk and I know it's DSDD. My first thought was a bad disk or a bad drive, too. I used ShrinkIt to image a ProDOS bootable floppy to my CFFA, then wrote the image to new disks in each of my 5.25 disk drives. Both disks booted correctly, so I think the drives and the disks are OK.

I used one of these just-tested disks to receive the next try and it still failed with errors. I used the other one to test sending, no errors reported on the send

I'm still betting on my home made cable from 1989 as the culprit

Jim

 

[david__schmidt]

I just commented out the 32 bit library directory and added the 64 bit. I'll go back and put a proper if/then/else using uname -a around that and send you the tested-on-64bit results.

Thanks for that. I've cobbled together a new script myself, and will need some real testing when the time comes.

I used one of these just-tested disks to receive the next try and it still failed with errors. I used the other one to test sending, no errors reported on the send

I'm still betting on my home made cable from 1989 as the culprit

I've heard of cables doing lots of goofy stuff, but usually it makes everything stop in its tracks, not continue with X's. Those X's mean that the data that successfully transferred failed to write to the drive. It feels like the comm subsystem is ok, but it's the OS layer that's failing.

We can move this ADTPro-specific discussion over to the ADTPro forum, as cluttering up the Jane thread is probably not ideal.

 

[jconger]

I have started a thread in the ADTPro forum as suggested to discuss ADT.

Back to the subject of Jane... I decided to try to make ShrinkIt disk images instead. If I can get some kind of an image I can get it uploaded to the archive.

Bad luck here, too. ShrinkIt 3.2.3 reports "I/O Error" when it tries to read Jane's grey system disk. I guess it's a special format. Oh if I only had dd!

Any suggestions on how to archive Jane?

Jim

 

[jconger]

I got ADTPro running. See the thread in the ADTPro forum for details.

Tried to use ADTPro to transfer the Jane grey system disk. It reported I/O error trying to identify the disk, then it tried to read blocks but stalled sending block 1.

Jane appears to be a unique format, copy protected or just proprietary. Looks like it may die out because of this. I bet Print Shop has, too.

Any suggestions?

Jim

 

[dorkbert]

"boot trace"

 

[jconger]

A "boot trace" must be done with LockSmith 6, right? That's a bit beyond what I can handle right now. Too much to learn with too little time.

I should have looked more carefully, it seems. A Google search for "apple locksmith jane", hoping to find LockSmith parameters or hints for Jane turned up http://radiovibrations.com/apple.htm as the first result. It looks like a list of images made, zipped, and uploaded to the Asimov archive.

This zip file, http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/unsorted/a2util2.zip, appears to have Jane disks in it, ready for use in an emulator. Looks like I don't need to image it, the work has already been done.

That leaves a couple of questions: is the manual worth scanning? and does anyone want the manual, disks, packaging, and mouse for their collection?

Jim

 

[dorkbert]

Here's a bit of antique KRAKOWICZ document describing Boot Tracing The basic idea is that despite a numerous protection schemes in existent, ultimately track 0, sector 0 if a disk has to be readable, or otherwise the disk won't boot. Knowing this, the boot rom on the disk controller can be instrumented to load the first sector then break, allowing the load code to be examined in stages.

 

[magnusfalkirk]

A "boot trace" must be done with LockSmith 6, right? That's a bit beyond what I can handle right now. Too much to learn with too little time.

I should have looked more carefully, it seems. A Google search for "apple locksmith jane", hoping to find LockSmith parameters or hints for Jane turned up http://radiovibrations.com/apple.htm as the first result. It looks like a list of images made, zipped, and uploaded to the Asimov archive.

This zip file, http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/unsorted/a2util2.zip, appears to have Jane disks in it, ready for use in an emulator. Looks like I don't need to image it, the work has already been done.

That leaves a couple of questions: is the manual worth scanning? and does anyone want the manual, disks, packaging, and mouse for their collection?

Jim

I downloaded the archive and tried the disks using AppleWin. Neither the Grey or Black will boot. The Red one boots but it's in German.

I'd be interested in having the the whole package if you don't want it any more.

Dean

 

[jconger]

I don't need it any more and I'd like to see someone with more time and skills give imaging it a try. PM me to work out the details. It's under 6 lbs and media rate that's only $4.33.

Jim

 

[jconger]

I was reading the LockSmith 6 documentation on its boot tracing simulator. Neat tool for single stepping through the boot starting with sector 0.

Thanks for the document reference, interesting reading. I'm saving a copy. With the right tools, copy protection -- or these days DRM -- just can't work because at some point you have to read it or execute it.

Jim