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Sean's bitching about another suspected Microsoft plot to rule the universe

Did other things change as well like no run option under the start menu?

I don't know. It seems to me that what I've always done is push the start button and click or type the name of the program I wanted to run into the search box and then click on the result that matched.

I dunno about Mac's being cheaper. Once there are a few competitors on the hardware then the market could open up more and they'd sell better but I've never been sold on Mac or the software. I guess if the software I bought worked on either platform it'd be a cheaper idea to transition but I still can't get over a one button mouse..(any portal fans out there?)

You can buy a Mac Mini for five hundred dollars and use your old monitor with it. It comes with a word processor that is compatible with Word. Also a spreedsheet IIRC. New PCs seem to be going for $400. I've always liked the one-button mouse, but not in the designs Apple released after the ADB "teardrop" version, which I really, really liked.

Sean
 
My question for people that are bashing MS for the official drop in XP support is when do you think they should axe it? Never?

Well, they supported version 1 till 2000 :)

I don't protest to be an MS fan boy, they have as a company made some major mistakes (Windows ME for instance) but overall I feel that most MS bashing is done simply because they are the big (successful) boys on the block.

That's not why I do it. I don't mind that they are big. I just don't like the lack of competition. Uh, if I was going to buy a new PC, I would learn Linux and see if there is a program that runs on top of it that has a compatible file format to Word.

I heard on the news that Vista was a hardware hog and I also heard that a lot of people didn't like it. I actually bought a copy of XP right before they stopped selling it, as I was planning to get FSX. That mistake cost $300. Whew!

Sean
 
I dunno about Mac's being cheaper. Once there are a few competitors on the hardware then the market could open up more and they'd sell better but I've never been sold on Mac or the software. I guess if the software I bought worked on either platform it'd be a cheaper idea to transition but I still can't get over a one button mouse..(any portal fans out there?)

yeah the initial cost may be a little more, but the life you get out of the hardware because of how the OS is designed (efficiency) is what makes it cheaper. MacOS X for instance on my MacBook Pro, the MacOS X will get ~8.5hrs of battery life with the battery that was included, but with a fresh install of Vista x64, and all of the correct system drivers installed, im lucky to get 2.5-3 hours on "Balanced", Windows is just not as efficient, and that's why i was able to keep my last mac so long.

hell my sister still uses my old PowerMac G3, it's got 1gig ram and a 900Mhz G3 processor in it, and it still does youtube just fine, it stumbles on hulu, but still not bad for a 12 year old machine. All that's been done to it was it was upgraded to MacOS Tiger ($60 since we shared the cost of a "family" license), a RAM upgrade (spare parts i had laying around), and a G4 upgrade card ($200 from Sonnet).

In the long run, their systems cost a lot less to maintain for the average user, OS X is much better with memory management, and just better with it's system resources, and that's thanks to it's UNIX base.

I work on PC's all day long, so they dont bother me, but when i get home i just prefer my mac, they last me longer, do everything i could ever want them to do, and i've never had OS X take more than 20 secs to boot on my machine.
 
As for licensing, I've been trying for quite some time to get to the bottom of this question: if they aren't taking away our right to use the software, do they intend to provide Windows Product Activation services for WinXP for the rest of eternity?

I don't know. You bring up a good point. I will say this though; the Windows Update site for Windows 9x is still up and running. You can download all the patches that were released by MS from there, its just that there are no new ones.

I don't think MS is killing their activation servers, nor do I think they will for a very long time, especially since the traffic on them will slowly get smaller and smaller. Maybe they will release a no activation patch, but I think more likely someone else will engineer one to circumvent MS so people can still use XP.


I heard on the news that Vista was a hardware hog and I also heard that a lot of people didn't like it. I actually bought a copy of XP right before they stopped selling it, as I was planning to get FSX. That mistake cost $300. Whew!

Thats exactly what I was talking about. Few people actually tried it and did not like it. There was so much negative publicity coming from everywhere that no one wanted to touch it. Alot of that negativity is still running around. IMO Windows 7 and Windows Vista are so damn close to each other it is hard to tell them apart sometimes, yet everyone seems to hate Vista, but they all love 7.

I think they did a commercial where they brought people in and had them try "the next windows version" and got feedback. They then revealed that it was actually Vista and surprised the hell out of people. That to me just showed how badly people were being brain washed against Vista.
 
I think they did a commercial where they brought people in and had them try "the next windows version" and got feedback. They then revealed that it was actually Vista and surprised the hell out of people. That to me just showed how badly people were being brain washed against Vista.

One problem here leads back to OEMs like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc... they all make cheap a** systems that have barely the minimum requirement to run the software, and then on top of that pile a bunch of junkware on the hard drive that boots with it every time you start it (how else can they afford to sell the complete PC for $400?) then people blame vista/windows for the performance issues.

See, people like us on here know this and can really get away with buying that $400 computer becuase we know to upgrade the RAM at the minimum and re-install windows ourselves, and then it runs just fine.

You see it's not all the "brainwashing" it's claimed to be, it's the cheap systems people buy that causes most of the headaches.
 
You see it's not all the "brainwashing" it's claimed to be, it's the cheap systems people buy that causes most of the headaches.

Yeah I suppose that is a large part of it, but I think it also starts before they buy it. When I was selling machines the people I talked always "new a guy" who said Vista was crap, so they did not want it, or they heard it on the radio, or some guy on TV said don't get it etc etc.
 
I don't know. You bring up a good point. I will say this though; the Windows Update site for Windows 9x is still up and running. You can download all the patches that were released by MS from there, its just that there are no new ones.

I don't think MS is killing their activation servers, nor do I think they will for a very long time, especially since the traffic on them will slowly get smaller and smaller. Maybe they will release a no activation patch, but I think more likely someone else will engineer one to circumvent MS so people can still use XP.

In the past I've definitely used pirated copies of certain software...but now I'm using copies that I legally own the license to use, so I'd like to be able to continue legally (that is, without circumventing anything) using the software.

Look at it this way: MS-DOS 6.22 is something that countless people have installed countless numbers of times on vintage systems, and there's a good chance that many of them got it from a torrent or download elsewhere online. That said, there are people who own the original disk set and would install from that, and use it within the confines of the license agreement. The person using the software legally doesn't need to jump through a hoop to prove they are, of course, but they know they are.

In 20 years, it's quite possible that I'll still have my Athlon64 rig. It'll undoubtedly be completely transitioned to 7 64 bit well before then but let's say I maintain the dual boot arrangement and want to reinstall. In 20 years, will the activation servers be up? Will MS even exist? Will contract law evolve such that electronic license agreements go out the window entirely and existing ones are void?

Anti-piracy technology like WPA/WGA really complicates the future use of a product you are legally licensed to use if you'd like to use it legally. I'm not hung up on legal issues but in this case, why act like a pirate if I'm not a pirate?

Hopefully they continue providing activation services for a long time, but I suspect that when they cut it off, they won't be doing any XP fans a favour with the way they do it.

One problem here leads back to OEMs like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc... they all make cheap a** systems that have barely the minimum requirement to run the software, and then on top of that pile a bunch of junkware on the hard drive that boots with it every time you start it (how else can they afford to sell the complete PC for $400?) then people blame vista/windows for the performance issues.

Another thing about the OEMs is how they can often be found using budget-line motherboards with poor chipsets, bottlenecks left and right...you'll find "well equipped" OEM systems running like trash, even with a clean Windows install, simply because some key bits of low-level hardware just aren't intended for performance.

Obviously that doesn't apply to ALL of them, but enough to be a point worth mentioning on that topic. There are decent OEM systems but you pay a hefty price for them.
 
Another thing about the OEMs is how they can often be found using budget-line motherboards with poor chipsets, bottlenecks left and right...you'll find "well equipped" OEM systems running like trash, even with a clean Windows install, simply because some key bits of low-level hardware just aren't intended for performance.

Obviously that doesn't apply to ALL of them, but enough to be a point worth mentioning on that topic. There are decent OEM systems but you pay a hefty price for them.

Oh i agree and that's why i'll never tell anyone to buy HP/Compaq. Those were prob my worst machines as far as OEM goes, Dell is good for it in their cheaper systems, but if you give about a 1000 for your system, they run very well for a very long time, if i buy an OEM machine, it's usually Dell because of that, their stuff usually works well together.
 
Oh i agree and that's why i'll never tell anyone to buy HP/Compaq. Those were prob my worst machines as far as OEM goes, Dell is good for it in their cheaper systems, but if you give about a 1000 for your system, they run very well for a very long time, if i buy an OEM machine, it's usually Dell because of that, their stuff usually works well together.

Which brings up an interesting point: everyone hates on Dell, but as far as OEMs go, they've got some of the best stuff you can buy...

Like all manufacturers they have had flukes in the past, and supposedly there's a big problem with some recent laptop models equipped with faulty nVidia graphics parts (which if you ask me means Dell got screwed too - thousands of warranty replacements on Dell's dollar, but not their fault), but overall the Dell lineup consists of decent machines.
 
Yeah I suppose that is a large part of it, but I think it also starts before they buy it. When I was selling machines the people I talked always "new a guy" who said Vista was crap, so they did not want it, or they heard it on the radio, or some guy on TV said don't get it etc etc.

That could be a case of reverse fake news. Fake news happens often on TV. That's where a company pays a TV station to do a story on it's news program that is really a promotion of the company's product. I'm sure that money changes hands before this happens. My local news reported that Vista had useful new features (and they'd the windows rotating in a circle) but that it needed lots of system resources to run well. This was right in the market (Seattle-Tacoma) where Microsoft is based (Redmond). It's possible that they were punishing Microsoft for not paying for fake news about the release of Vista. It's not extortion - nobody threatened Microsoft with anything.

It would be interesting (and impossible, probably) to know how much Microsoft spent on "advertising" on that station for both Vista and version 7.

Sean
 
I wish Microsoft wasn't so enthusiastic about rubbing my nose in the fact that I can't afford to buy the newest, fastest, most expensive computer every three years. Hell, I've actually read about them admitting that they designed FSX for systems that hadn't been designed yet. IIRC, they were designing for three years past the release date.

I think a new Macintosh costs a lot less in the long run - you spend fifty bucks every few years to upgrade to the newest system software instead of four hundred for a new computer, and you can do it over and over with the Mac.

O.K., defenders of Microsoft, here's your cue :)

Sean

Not sure what your problem is. How does a new mac cost less in the long run to run? Macs cost more to buy, they get OS upgrades more often then the PC but you pay for that incremental upgrade with few new features, and Apple is a very closed system. You can build a brand new machine and just install an old Windows XP into it (and find drivers for it). How many people who purchased the last Quad G5 are going to be left in the dust when OSX x86 only is out? I seen people put XP on fast P3 machines, and those are ancient and new software still runs on them.
 
I am a strong opponent of Microsoft, but I do distinguish between the software and the company. I hope others do too. The problem with XP and Vista etc, is Microsoft. As for the actual systems themselves, there are both good and bad points to any OS that I've ever heard of, so discussing that part wears thin after a short time.

Although there are perhaps a few arguable problems with Vista, certainly XP has earned its place in the world as a very functional and enduring OS. There is a lady around here who gets all the old computers which I wouldn't consider suitable for running any really functional *nix system on, yet she installs XP on them and they work just fine. Go figure.
 
Not sure what your problem is. How does a new mac cost less in the long run to run? Macs cost more to buy, they get OS upgrades more often then the PC but you pay for that incremental upgrade with few new features, and Apple is a very closed system. You can build a brand new machine and just install an old Windows XP into it (and find drivers for it). How many people who purchased the last Quad G5 are going to be left in the dust when OSX x86 only is out? I seen people put XP on fast P3 machines, and those are ancient and new software still runs on them.

Last year I read on low end mac about a web browser that would run on a G3 (15+ y.o. machine) and could display the new features of the internet. Although I imagine that watching video would be out. One neat thing about this browser (who's name I disrecall) was that you could set it to report the name of whatever browser you wanted - a good way to force webpages to display and possibly a way to fool hackers. Others in this thread have already spoken of the long term value of Macs. As for using the internet with an XP machine, one problem that I've had is that the hard drive on the machines I use is always being accessed. My friend who has a degree in computer science says that is the result of hackers who want the infomation on your harddrive.

You couldn't pay me a million dollars to e-file my tax return.

Sean
 
Last year I read on low end mac about a web browser that would run on a G3 (15+ y.o. machine) and could display the new features of the internet. Although I imagine that watching video would be out. One neat thing about this browser (who's name I disrecall) was that you could set it to report the name of whatever browser you wanted - a good way to force webpages to display and possibly a way to fool hackers.

Actually the G3 came out in 1997 or 98. I had one on my desk--back in the G3's heyday, I worked on both Macs and PCs. By about 2000 or 2001, it was no longer a machine you would want to use every day, unless you don't mind waiting a long time for applications to run. You can install some versions of OS X on them, but OS X was never fast on an original beige G3. Trying to do modern computing on a G3 is very much like trying to run Windows XP or Vista on a 400 MHz Pentium II. Nothing stops you from doing it, as long as you have the amount of memory stated on the box. But that doesn't mean you would want to do it. I've seen Windows XP on a 133 MHz Pentium from 1994. It works. It wasn't fast, and I didn't like using it, but it worked.

As for spoofing other browsers, Opera (on all platforms) has been doing that for a number of years. It's a common feature.

Others in this thread have already spoken of the long term value of Macs. As for using the internet with an XP machine, one problem that I've had is that the hard drive on the machines I use is always being accessed. My friend who has a degree in computer science says that is the result of hackers who want the infomation on your harddrive.

Umm. Go back and ask your friend with the degree in computer science about virtual memory. It's true that spyware can cause the disk to thrash, but another, very likely explanation is that your XP machine doesn't have enough RAM in it, and is using the hard drive as a cheap substitute.

I'm typing this right now on an XP machine. My disk light is off.

And while it's not as common as Windows spyware, Macintosh spyware does exist. I read about some just this past week. And have you heard of pwn2own? It's a contest where they set up a Windows box, a Mac, and a Linux box. First guy to hack into it gets to keep it. Not only does the Mac get hacked every year, frequently the Mac is the first one to go. For what it's worth, someone manages to hack into all three systems every year. The only secure machine is the one that's not plugged into the network.

You couldn't pay me a million dollars to e-file my tax return.

That's what encryption is for. Encrypted links can be made extremely secure, when necessary. I've been e-filing for years.

Oh, I forgot: it would seem to me that finding which drivers you needed without system documentation would be a difficuolt proposistion, and then finding drivers that weren't virus carriers would be, too. Not that I've ever tried to do these things.

It's not that hard. Functional drivers often are included with the OS. If you don't have one, look on the card. Most network cards use one of a handful of chipsets, for example. It's a good skill to develop. It helped me pay my way through college.

To avoid viruses, download digitally signed drivers from the manufacturer. If the driver has been altered, the digital signature will be invalid, and Windows will lay an egg when you try to install it. And futhermore, you DO have antivirus software installed, don't you? Microsoft Security Essentials is a good, effective antivirus program, and it's free. Don't trust Microsoft? Then I recommend NOD32, published by ESET. It's effective and slows your system down less than any other antivirus program I've seen, because it's written in assembly language.

Speaking as a computer security professional (I'm Security+ certified and currently studying for my CISSP), please, since you've expressed concern about computer security, learn something about it. Spreading assumptions and misinformation about computer security doesn't do anybody any favors. Please, by all means, read up on encryption and digital signatures at the very least (the Wikipedia articles on them are a reasonable place to start).
 
One neat thing about this browser (who's name I disrecall) was that you could set it to report the name of whatever browser you wanted - a good way to force webpages to display
That's not uncommon. Lynx does that too. It avoids the wrath of arrogant webmasters. :)

Others in this thread have already spoken of the long term value of Macs. As for using the internet with an XP machine, one problem that I've had is that the hard drive on the machines I use is always being accessed.
I think that is by OS design. It bothers me too when a computer does that. I'm no Windows user, but I think you can cut down on that if you disable your virus checking. Of course then you wouldn't be able to go on the net with it. :( I like my DOS machine the best. There I can turn off my hard drive completely and just work in RAM. Very relaxing.

You couldn't pay me a million dollars to e-file my tax return.
Aw, come on... just stick in a live CD and do it from there. Some banks are even recommending that method now. It's not that hard to be safe.
 
I believe the occasional drive access is related to NTFS being a journaling file system...right?

I've done the "go online and find drivers for x" thing hundreds of times for Win95 through Win7 (and I'm 20). The most difficult and frustrating experience was Win7 not including a SiS 900 ethernet driver, but whatever. Not like it was popular or anything...only installed in virtually every socket 462 motherboard ever made among many others...anyway, point is I've never found a virus-infected driver. Perhaps this is luck, or perhaps I know what I'm doing. I'm sure I could find a virus-infected driver if I typed the hardware model into Google and clicked the first result, but that isn't how you find drivers.

1) Original included media if available
2) Windows Update (assuming you aren't looking for your ethernet driver...)
3) ...if you are looking for your ethernet driver, on another machine manually search the Windows Update Catalogue website (IE only but a very, very good resource)
4) Manufacturer Website
5) driverguide dot com

If it's not on any of those...well, something else is at play here, like people who enter FCC ID numbers as model numbers.
 
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I think Windows is a very nice operating system. Snow Leopard definitely beats it though

I have a problem with microsoft for a few reasons:
First, there are or used to be very anti competitive
I hate the 6 versions of each operating system
Upgrade prices: windows 7 ultimate 64 will run you a couple hundred if you already purchased vista the year before. Mac os snow leopard: $30
They have very few innovative, original ideas. All the new features people get exited over have been in os x for years
And finally, they (or Gates) are one of the largest contributers financially to planned parenthood. Not good in my book

I'm not calling os x the perfect system, apple has flaws, but its a heck of alot better, especially being built on Darwin

</rant>
 
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