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Model 25 Gaming

evildragon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
1,646
Location
Tampa Florida
Well, I finally demonstrate my Model 25's from the inside, and actually put that VGA card to use for games (buffered VGA, which the MCGA chip can not).

And pull of some street fighter games too at that!

A video is to follow of this btw.

m251.jpg

m252.jpg

m253.jpg

m254.jpg

m255.jpg
 
No joke, I do have a coffee mug from IBM that calls the Model 25 the "All-Night Fighter"...

Put a game card in there for the joystick, and try "Paku-Paku" too...
 
WHAT?! God damn youtube screwed up yet again.

They keep screwing my sound on my videos and require like 4 upload attempts..
 
Cool, I didn't know that Body Blows worked in a XT machine (it refuses to work on my IBM PS/1 2011 (80286 with a monochrome vga monitor)
 
Yep, it worked that time. Would you mind sharing how to do the VGA mod?
I wouldn't mind. First thing, you'll need some wires. Something not too thin, but not too thick. (If too thin, you may get interference on the picture). Now, there is two ways to go about this. One way assumes the VGA card has a proper mono mode (mine did not), and the other assumes it doesn't (like mine). You'll need a jumper wire from ground to VGA connector pin 12, if the video card supports proper mono palette. If it doesn't (and the palette loads "false" like a thermal camera), jumper pin 11.

Now, the wiring. For a fully functional mono palette card, just route lines G, Ground, H Sync, and V Sync to the model 25's video connector. The pinout of the connector (including color models), is on this site: http://www.rwhirled.com/iBmac/iBmac-tips.htm

Now, if your video card doesn't support a proper monochrome palette, I'm going to show you the right way to do this. I didn't do this and is why my screen got so bright when it turned on. You need to grab the R, G, B lines and make a circuit like this:
Code:
GA CONNECTOR
                       ____
RED   1 >-+-----------|____|----+
          |  ____     82 ohm    |
          +-|____|-+            |
           180 ohm |            |
BGND  6 -----------+            |
                       ____     |
GREEN  2 >-------------|____|----+----------------> VIDEO OUT
                      22 ohm    |
                       ____     |
BLUE  3 >-+-----------|____|----+
          |  ____     240 ohm   
          +-|____|-+            
           100 ohm |            
BGND  8 -----------+

GGND  7 ------------------------------------------ VIDEO GROUND

HSYNC 13 >----------------------------------------> HSYNC
                                 
VSYNC 14 >----------------------------------------> VSYNC 

 GND  5 ----------------------------------------- GROUND

Now, don't you have a color model 25? In that case, just connect the wires away without any of what I just said :p R to R, G to G, B to B. But just make sure you use an OLD VGA card, that way you can possibly accidentally load a 800x600 scanrate or higher. And just remember, the model 25's CRT is technically fixed frequency, it only knows two things, 400 lines at 70Hz, and 480 lines at 60Hz. So EGA 350 line makes the screen high. Unlike a true multisync that would handle anything within reason..
 
Very nice mod - I saw your sig in the past, but just never asked you how you did the VGA mod. Up until now, I was thinking that you might have done a tube swap or something - I didn't know that the tube in these was capable of VGA.

How are you running the hard drive, ZIP drive, and CD? I'm guessing that you're using the original drive, an XT-IDE for the large drive, and maybe the IDE port on the sound blaster for the ZIP and CD drives? (note, am at work, so haven't been able to watch the video yet. Perhaps I should...hehe)

Definitely something to think about with my own color Model 25. Now I'm thinking about where I could install a switch to enable/disable the VGA (prior to boot, of course) - I don't think it would be simple enough to just install one in the circuit going to the video connector, as the VGA card should supersede the internal MCGA so long as it's supplied with power. Any ideas?
 
Very nice mod - I saw your sig in the past, but just never asked you how you did the VGA mod. Up until now, I was thinking that you might have done a tube swap or something - I didn't know that the tube in these was capable of VGA.

How are you running the hard drive, ZIP drive, and CD? I'm guessing that you're using the original drive, an XT-IDE for the large drive, and maybe the IDE port on the sound blaster for the ZIP and CD drives? (note, am at work, so haven't been able to watch the video yet. Perhaps I should...hehe)

Definitely something to think about with my own color Model 25. Now I'm thinking about where I could install a switch to enable/disable the VGA (prior to boot, of course) - I don't think it would be simple enough to just install one in the circuit going to the video connector, as the VGA card should supersede the internal MCGA so long as it's supplied with power. Any ideas?
Actually, the 3GB hard drive, Zip drive, and CD drive are all on the parallel port. But MSCDEX seems to have issues on the model 25's, it crashes after some data is transferred (even a directory listing does it), so I actually don't do that anymore. My soundblaster doesn't have IDE, it's the Matsushita interface type.

The tube in these machines are analog like VGA, but lack the circuitry for some video modes, like EGA 350 line modes, and the CRT will spazz out of control.

I am though, taking out the VGA mod card, as I am awaiting a NIC card (the one in the computer at the time of this video doesn't work), and am keeping the SoundBlaster. So one of them had to go for the NIC. ;) Getting an SMC Ultrachip II.. Almost here, and once here, I'll no longer need the 19200bps serial port to get online via telnet..
 
The tube in these machines are analog like VGA, but lack the circuitry for some video modes, like EGA 350 line modes, and the CRT will spazz out of control.

This makes sense because MCGA could not utilize 350 line modes andthe machine was not intended to be upgraded to VGA.

Body Blows must use the extra 192KB of a VGA card for buffering. Once you leave graphics mode 13h, MCGA will likely fail. Of course, many VGA/MCGA games would not likely run well on an 8086 anyway.
 
This makes sense because MCGA could not utilize 350 line modes and the machine was not intended to be upgraded to VGA.

Body Blows must use the extra 192KB of a VGA card for buffering. Once you leave graphics mode 13h, MCGA will likely fail. Of course, many VGA/MCGA games would not likely run well on an 8086 anyway.

In this specific case, and in a couple of my Model 25 "XTs", we've put in an NEC V30 CPU. Also keep in mind that the same tube is used in the Model 25 286 (VGA), 25SX (SVGA), and planar upgrades for the Model 25. The 8086-based Model 25 may have not been intended to be upgraded to VGA, but an upgrade works, and the planar MCGA video is disabled automatically when a VGA adapter is put in.
 
Do your Model 25 286 (VGA), 25SX (SVGA) support 350 line modes? What about color tubes? (He has a monochrome tube). Also, if the SVGA Model 25 has the same tube, then it should support 800x600, shouldn't it?

Does anyone know what would happen if an EGA card was put in the 8086 25 or 30?
 
Do your Model 25 286 (VGA), 25SX (SVGA) support 350 line modes? What about color tubes? (He has a monochrome tube). Also, if the SVGA Model 25 has the same tube, then it should support 800x600, shouldn't it?

Does anyone know what would happen if an EGA card was put in the 8086 25 or 30?

Yes, I do need to retract my universal statement, because the OP has a grayscale tube. The 8086-based Model 25 was the only possibly with that option (versions with grayscale or color tubes; almost all of mine are color), because the 25 286 and 25SX had only color tubes. Despite the "SVGA" marking, the 25SX had a chipset that did not do 800x600 (used perhaps for that reason).

The "PC Enterprises" upgrade (I also have a "Reply 25") had a video chipset capable of higher resolutions, but in this case it would be for more color-depth. If I were brave, I suppose I could try 800x600 resolution on the monitor. In some tests before, I remember briefly overdriving enough to smell it, but no permanent damage.
 
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