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Networking a 5150 to a modern PC

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bettablue

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So, yeah... I have a modern PC connected to the Internet through a wired connection on my wireless router. The only reason for the wireless is that we have laptops using the router to connect to the Interenet and the other computers. When my 5150 arrives I want to be able to connect it to the router using a wired connection. Here is the question. Can the 5150 access my modern PC's hard drive and run programs from there? Is my modern disk format compatible to the 5150? I am running Windows 7 and the hard drive is on an NTFS formatted partition. Actually there are two drives, and both are NTFS. Will I need to reformat my storage drive to FAT 16 ot FAT 32 for the 5150 to access it?

On the other hand, can I transfer programs and games to the 5150 using my Windows 7 machine? I knw there is no hard disk in the 5150, so that will probably be a chink in the chain so to speak.

What are your thought and suggestions?
 
I think it's actually possible, and if I remember correctly, somebody did just that some time ago. After what I remember, a NetWare-driver was used to achieve it.
 
Enable NetBEUI networking on your modern PC, and install either MS network client for DOS or MSLANMAN. You may need to replace the 8088 in your system with a V20 (I did).

You may be able to do something similar with NetWare, but the "flavor" will be somewhat different.

The MS-DOS network redirector doesn't use the DOS FAT filesystem for networked drives (which is why, for example, MSCDEX uses it to handle CDFS), so you should be okay if you can live with 8.3 "shrunk" file names.
 
The 5150 won't care about filesystem or disk capacity on the other computer. A network is a sneaky way to get lots of disk capacity in a really old machine.

Just thinking out loud, my suggestion would be to track down an NE2000 or compatible card that can run in an 8-bit slot. Then you need a driver that can work on an 8088, and Microsoft's DOS LAN Manager client, which you can get from ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/BusSys/Clients/LANMAN/

It should be possible, but may pose a bit of a challenge. The Microsoft client states it needs 1 MB of disk space, so you'll probably have to install it on another computer with an HDD and pare it down to fit on whatever storage your 5150 has (presumably two 360K floppies). Perhaps running PKLITE or something similar on some of the executables will get the size down.

Sorry I can't be more help but hopefully that points you in the right direction.
 
I would install the XT-IDE in the 5150 with a CF drive or adapter/card hanging directly on the IDE header. That way you have no cables. It'll also give you more/easier options for your LANManager software of choice.
 
Using MS LANMAN is memory intensive. It will chew about 100k+ of memory. Its the main reason why I don't use it on my DOS machines anymore.
 
If you have at least LIM 3.2, LANMAN will use that. You can save a bit using MS Net Client for DOS.

If you're short on memory, you can always stop the services.
 
bettablue said:
. . .
On the other hand, can I transfer programs and games to the 5150 using my Windows 7 machine? I knw there is no hard disk in the 5150, so that will probably be a chink in the chain so to speak.

What are your thought and suggestions?
Click to expand...
You can run both FTP and telnet from a floppy on your 5150. Whatever is running on the Windows machine is irrelevant except you will of course have to run a Telnet and/or FTP server which I presume you are anyway. SSH is a little larger but will also fit on a floppy. If you have two floppy drives, you're laughing. Using TCP/IP allows you to connect to your local network and anything on the internet as well.

You didn't say (or I missed it) what kind of connection you will have from the 5150. You will need a network card, but can get away with using PPP over a serial port if your Windows machine can run pppd and do IP forwarding. (null modem cable required) I think however you will have to install Windows Server to run pppd. Of course you could use some junk machine as a "tweener" and put any ol Linux on it - that's cheap and trivial. (Instructions here)
 
All great responses. I was also given this little didbit of onformation too. Running Laplink on the 5150 to access the programs and files on the PC, then write a floppy of the program. Wuold that be feesable? Of course, I'll still have to get the two machines talking to each other.
 
bettablue said:
All great responses. I was also given this little didbit of onformation too. Running Laplink on the 5150 to access the programs and files on the PC, then write a floppy of the program. Wuold that be feesable? Of course, I'll still have to get the two machines talking to each other.
Click to expand...

I don't run Laplink, but MS-DOS Interlnk should work. You can make a bootable floppy with Intersvr in the autoexec.bat then you can even connect to it headless (no kbd or scrn) from the other computer. Or, build a tweener running DOS where you hook up with interlnk to pick things up or drop them off. Note though that Interlnk only runs on 6.*, but since you're using floppies that doesn't really matter I guess.
 
I have a 486 machine with Norton Commander 5.51 on it. I can create/edit my floppy images on my Windows 7 machine using Win Image or download a pre-made one. I then transfer the image to the 486 either via a null modem cable or my network (I use FTP).

Then using Norton Commander I can create the disk with its built in floppy image software and use the disk in the machine I am working on.

This works out very well for me.
 
Ole Juul said:
I don't run Laplink, but MS-DOS Interlnk should work. ... Note though that Interlnk only runs on 6.*, but since you're using floppies that doesn't really matter I guess.
Click to expand...
I'm just having this discussion in another thread: I think you'll find that Interlink (and Laplink as well IIRC) works in all versions of MS-DOS from at least 4.0 through Win98 in DOS mode; IIRC it even worked in 3.3.
 
MikeS said:
I'm just having this discussion in another thread: I think you'll find that Interlink (and Laplink as well IIRC) works in all versions of MS-DOS from at least 4.0 through Win98 in DOS mode; IIRC it even worked in 3.3.
Click to expand...
I think you're right. Something was tickling the back of my brain while I was writing that. My little DOS reference book says the utility was introduced with 6.0, and since MS likes to put in "wrong version" messages whenever possible, I assumed (presumably incorrectly) that it would happen here as well. I'll test this out shortly, and educate myself. :)
 
bettablue said:
All great responses. I was also given this little didbit of onformation too. Running Laplink on the 5150 to access the programs and files on the PC, then write a floppy of the program. Wuold that be feesable? Of course, I'll still have to get the two machines talking to each other.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean; Laplink (or Interlink, the MS-DOS sort-of equivalent) is what the two machines use to talk to each other. If you have a null-modem cable and both systems are running a modern version of DOS it is self-installing.

Laplink is mainly intended for transferring files back and forth whereas Interlink looks just like a 'normal' network, i.e. the disk drives on the server appear on the client as additional drives; your dual floppy would have a drive C (and maybe more) just as if you had a local hard disk (albeit a little slower; max 115200 bd).

The main difference from a 'real' network other than speed is that the server is dedicated to serving; either system can be the client depending on the order in which you boot, but the other one will not be able to do anything else except provide drives for the client. There are other similar serial port networks that don't have this restriction, but then you might as well use a real ethernet network.
 
This thread has turned out to be the most informative one for me so far. Thanks everyone for all of the responses.

Mike S: your post definitely caught my the right way and got me thingking that this is the way to go. Sorry foor all of the questions, but your response seems to tell me that setting things up between the 5150 and my Windows 7 machine will be pretty easy. I just need some more info to get things straight in my own mind.

I'm not too concerned about the overall transfer speed since I know the 5150 isn't going to win any marks in that area simply because of what it is. Will the 5150's 640Kb of memory be enough to run Interlink AND still have enough to copy a file or game to floppy? Or do I need to even write a floppy? Can I run a game or other program right from the host PCs hard drive? Also, when I install Interlink, do I boot to the 5150, THEN boot the main PC? If my Windows 7 computer has to boot to DOS, can I boot it to DOS from a CD, or do I have to dual boot the computer? Do I have to have Interlink running on both computers?

I know I have a lot of questions, but if this works the way you suggest, I'll be a very happy vintage geek! (Yes, I'm definitely considered to be vintage in my own right.)
 
You can connect the two machines via Interlink. It's mainly a matter of cabling them up, booting the host PC and running intersvr.exe, then booting the client PC and running interlnk.exe. I think. It's been a while. The downside to this approach is that you'll have to boot to DOS. Your Windows 7 machine is probably formatted NTFS, so you'll have to work around that.

Interlink is a convenient way to get critical files over to your 5150, and that may be good enough for what you want to do, but if you want to be able to use both machines at the same time, getting the MS Lanman client running will be a nicer long-term solution. Then you can just share out a directory on your Windows 7 machine and your 5150 can connect to it and use it.
 
bettablue said:
Mike S: your post definitely caught my the right way and got me thingking that this is the way to go. Sorry foor all of the questions, but your response seems to tell me that setting things up between the 5150 and my Windows 7 machine will be pretty easy. I just need some more info to get things straight in my own mind.

I'm not too concerned about the overall transfer speed since I know the 5150 isn't going to win any marks in that area simply because of what it is. Will the 5150's 640Kb of memory be enough to run Interlink AND still have enough to copy a file or game to floppy? Or do I need to even write a floppy? Can I run a game or other program right from the host PCs hard drive? Also, when I install Interlink, do I boot to the 5150, THEN boot the main PC? If my Windows 7 computer has to boot to DOS, can I boot it to DOS from a CD, or do I have to dual boot the computer? Do I have to have Interlink running on both computers?

I know I have a lot of questions, but if this works the way you suggest, I'll be a very happy vintage geek! (Yes, I'm definitely considered to be vintage in my own right.)
Click to expand...
Well, of course as usual there are some gotchas with Interlink, as Dave and other folks have pointed out:

- It runs under DOS or a DOS-friendly Windows (i.e. pre-XP) in DOS mode, i.e. Windows suspended, so the server can't do anything else while serving. There are two parts to Interlink, INTERSVR.EXE which runs exclusively on the server and must be started first, and INTERLNK.EXE which is a driver in the client's CONFIG.SYS file that's run (and connects to the server) when you boot the client.

- You can of course boot your Win7 server into DOS, but then you probably won't have access to the server's hard disk since it's most likely formatted with NTFS which DOS normally can't read (although I think there are 'fixes' for that 'out there'). So, you either need a FAT16 partition on the server's hard disk (or a second small hard disk which would be my choice), or some other medium that DOS can read: A floppy, obviously (which your server probably doesn't have any more), a rewritable CD, a USB stick (if you can get DOS to recognize it), ZIP drive, etc., and you'd have to load your files on to that before you start the server.

Bottom line: If the server is running Win XP or later, it gets a little complicated and a real ethernet connection starts to look good. If you can install a second FAT hard disk in your WIN7 system, can boot DOS from floppy/CD/USB etc. and don't mind tying up the WIN7 machine then it's not too shabby.

No, you don't really need floppies; as I said, from the XT's point of view it looks the same as if you had a C: hard disk (and D:, etc. if there are any on the server), just a little slower (and of course some of the low-level disk commands don't work remotely just like a 'real' network).

Installation's pretty straightforward, and there are some excellent writeups on the net.
 
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