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8 bit ide controller (vintage-computer rev-1 card)

R

rangga

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
13
I think someone breaking the rule... :(

Check it out guys...

hxxp://www.ebay.com/itm/XT-IDE-ISA-HDD-CONTROLLER-CONNECT-MODERN-IDE-DRIVES-XT-MACHINES-8088-80286-/320765191316?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item4a af186494

CMIIWR
 
rangga said:
I think someone breaking the rule... :(

Check it out guys...

hxxp://www.ebay.com/itm/XT-IDE-ISA-HDD-CONTROLLER-CONNECT-MODERN-IDE-DRIVES-XT-MACHINES-8088-80286-/320765191316?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item4a af186494

CMIIWR
Click to expand...
First, you are wrong about the acronym -- it's CMIIW, not CMIIWR.

Next, I don't know what rule you think he is breaking. Could you please enlighten me so I may make an informed decision.
 
Stone said:
Next, I don't know what rule you think he is breaking. Could you please enlighten me so I may make an informed decision.
Click to expand...
There's not any rule being broken as far as I know. Someone either made the card or is reselling an XT-IDE card, which is perfectly fine.
 
I'm not sure what license the design files were offered under, but even if it were GPL hardware, the reseller looks like he's kept everything untouched. He's not breaking any rules. If someone wanted to build the exact same card, they could certainly do it cheaper. But if they wanted to pay the premium and avoid the hassle, the seller is doing them a service.

Maybe if he didn't collect VAT on the net from a UK buyer.. maybe.
 
When the XTIDE was developed, the persons that did all the work wanted to make something affordable for hobbyists like us and requested that the project be non-profit. Kind of like GNU. In other words, don't buy it for cost from the developers and resell for personal gain. I'm seeing the seller is in Greece and the Buy It Now price is $93.47 US dollars.

Clearly what our members did not want happening. This guy must be from Wall Street.
 
Chuckster_in_Jax said:
Clearly what our members did not want happening. This guy must be from Wall Street.
Click to expand...

Note that the vintage-computer.com link is silkscreened onto the board. A savvy buyer will pick up on that. But the seller owns the board, so if he wants to sell it for a sack of Euros or a pound of gold, or use it to collect dog poop from his yard, that's his business. As far as I know, the folks here didn't make any of the buyers sign an agreement limiting the buyer's rights.
 
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Chuckster_in_Jax said:
When the XTIDE was developed, the persons that did all the work wanted to make something affordable for hobbyists like us and requested that the project be non-profit.

Clearly what our members did not want happening.
Click to expand...

The seller isn't making a profit on the board. He's making a profit on his time needed to purchase the PCBs (which anyone can do by sending the published gerbers to a board house), purchase the component kit, and solder everything up. Capitalism 101. More power to him. The next guy is free to do the same and come along an under-cut this guy. I don't think there is a current supply of these boards anyway from original channels. I think those organizing group-PCB buys are out of stock and waiting on new designs to finalize before going forward.

As long as the person isn't trying to re-brand the board or modify the design in any way without proper credit to the original authors, all roads lead back here.
 
I think Chuckster_in_Jax has explained the point.
In my point of view it is not ethic to make a profit for the 'non profit' project like Hargle and friends done.
Everyone can make a new term like 'service charge' or 'this is my business' or else to forgive themselves, so
I'm waiting for Hargle to make this clear (if he don't mind).

@Stone
Thanks for the acronym correction. The additional 'R' is for my initial only (rangga).
 
This is very lame.
Yes, capitalism reigns and there is nothing legal anyone can or should do blah de blah, but I absolutely have stated numerous times that if you buy a kit that I sell *for cost* and we developed *for free* you shouldn't turn around and try to re-sell the item for a profit.

This looks very, very much like a kit purchased from me, with a SEEQ part and the dipswitch all look like they came straight from Jameco.
Heck, I might have even soldered the thing together for this person.

I will be contacting this seller.
 
Many board houses offer a sequential serial number service on the silkscreening for little additional charge. They all stamp their logo and usually an order number anyway for their own batch tracking
.
 
As has been said, Capitalism 101. Once something physical has been sold, the original seller cannot prohibit the buyer from re-selling it, or placing any conditions on the re-sale (such as maximum price.)

Yeah, in certain circles, such as this, it is rather rude to re-sell for a large profit. I am also a big supporter of my local soccer team, which has a large culture of supporter-group-made gear - and it is likewise considered bad form to re-sell those for a profit. But it happens. If someone makes a business out of doing this, then by all means do whatever can be done to stop it. But if it's one person doing it one time, it isn't even worth getting worked up over it.
 
I agree with the idea that once you've purchased it, it's Capitalism 101, but the trick is... IF you're from here and have been around a bit, then you know the designers' stances on the matter. THEY could have sold the design and profited if that was what they wanted. But now, if this turns into a rash of for-profit sales, it's going to inspire the people like Andrew and Hargle to not share their designs as freely which is a detriment to the entire community.

Does Greece-guy have the right to sell his item for whatever price it's worth? Yup. Is it a douchy thing to do, considering the item's origins? YUP.
 
I've contacted the seller, and unfortunately he's a victim too. he bought the card on ebay from someone else, not sure who or at what price. He was very confused as to why my wrath was coming down on him, and that's totally understandable. I've told my story of the origins of the card and hopefully he'll understand. The douchery has already been committed and it escaped unnoticed.

I kinda figured this was going to happen sooner or later. Even though I've tried to prepare myself for it now that it finally has happened, it absolutely has made me reconsider about how much free time, energy and startup money I'm going to put into the next product.
 
Maverick1978 said:
I agree with the idea that once you've purchased it, it's Capitalism 101, but the trick is... IF you're from here and have been around a bit, then you know the designers' stances on the matter. THEY could have sold the design and profited if that was what they wanted. But now, if this turns into a rash of for-profit sales, it's going to inspire the people like Andrew and Hargle to not share their designs as freely which is a detriment to the entire community.

Does Greece-guy have the right to sell his item for whatever price it's worth? Yup. Is it a douchy thing to do, considering the item's origins? YUP.
Click to expand...

Is he going to be allowed to buy another one from the developers?....
 
hargle said:
I've contacted the seller, and unfortunately he's a victim too. he bought the card on ebay from someone else, not sure who or at what price. He was very confused as to why my wrath was coming down on him, and that's totally understandable. I've told my story of the origins of the card and hopefully he'll understand. The douchery has already been committed and it escaped unnoticed.

I kinda figured this was going to happen sooner or later. Even though I've tried to prepare myself for it now that it finally has happened, it absolutely has made me reconsider about how much free time, energy and startup money I'm going to put into the next product.
Click to expand...

Well, the correct answer is to keep flooding the market with the cards so that it makes it hard for somebody to try to turn a profit on one.

(I really need to get you the PCjr version of the BIOS for review.)


Mike
 
I'm with Mike, here.

Andrew, Hargle--if it were me, I'd write the seller and offer him a special volume deal on the bare boards. If he takes enough, the volume discount will lower forum members' cost and you won't have the problem of finding time to assemble the darned things. And you make a few shiny pennies for your efforts.
 
Don't worry, I plan on bribing you (Mike) too! (I will need your snail mail soon).

Edit: I hear Chuck is easy and doesn't need bribing.
 
hargle said:
I kinda figured this was going to happen sooner or later. Even though I've tried to prepare myself for it now that it finally has happened, it absolutely has made me reconsider about how much free time, energy and startup money I'm going to put into the next product.
Click to expand...

Why? You've accomplished your goal of providing cheap hard drive controllers to the community, and whoever made a buck off of your design didn't actually harm you in any way. Yeah, it was a dickish thing to do, but you wouldn't be punishing him, only us.
 
Also there probably is a market for them at the moment as there is no supply of new boards just now, pending several development efforts that should see some fruit soon :)
 
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