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IBM 5170 Restoration

Max IBM5150

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
33
Location
Louisiana, United States
I just recently aquired an IBM PC/AT off eBay and I have big plans for this machine, I am going to take this computer, (With the help of Windows 3.11,IE 5.0 and an ISA eithernet card) Onto the internet to surf the Web! ( just as a proof of concept really, I really love the AT and wish to use it for business applications and other cool things aswell.) I have allready gotten Windows 95 pc's to do this just fine but I like to push the envelope.

I got this thing with no FDD's or HDD's and only a memory add-on board to bring the RAM to 1MB (that also includes a Paralell/ sereal port and a Non-IBM CGA card. There was no life in this machine at all when I powered it up at first.

Well I went digging thru my AT class stuff and found 2 1.2MB 5.25" Floppy drives and a FDD/ IDE HDD controler from about 1986. I also found a 1988 Western Digital 3.5" 40MB HDD so I installed that. I also installed a 16-bit VGA/EGA/CGA/MDA card to upgrade the graphics memory to 1MB, and use VGA (or the respective graphics modes when needed) aswell. I even found a 16-bit SIMM-based memory add-on board with 4MB or SIMM RAM on it (expandable to 8MB) allready and a Sound Blaster 2 Pro. I even found an 8-bit Paralell card from my 5150 I replaced with a multifunction card,and put that in there too.

After I installed this all, the machine seemed to work untill it wouldnt adress past 1MB of RAM and wouldnt adress the HDD either and it old me to run setup and I was thinking to myself that this is one of the worst things this computer can tell you sence that the BIOS config files are supplied on a Floppy Diskette.

So The way I see it, I have 2 major problems

1. I dont have the BIOS setup diskette.

2. I the computer does not adress over 1MB or ram at startup, even though I know there is 5MB total. (and I eventully want to go to the maximum 16MB or RAM) and it does not adress the Hard Drive. (even though I run FDisk, it tells me there are none either)

So the questions I have now are,

1. How can I get the BIOS setup disk?

2. After I get the disk, would this let me configure the system to adress past 1MB of RAM and adress the HDD?

3. Would getting the Intel 80287 Math Coprosessor help me with this feat?

4. And are there any random facts that anybody knows about the PC/AT that would help me?

If anyone out there has any advice for me that would be great, I was born in the Pentium-Era of computing so I dont have alot of experence with these computers (except for an IBM 5150 that I rased from the dead a few months ago, but that is a whole other animal alltogather in a way)

But I love restoring these machines and teaching others my age about them too (some of the kids I talk to tell me that computers werent even invented untill 1986 or so, Ha Ha Ha)

Well, from the next-generation of vintage computer restorers and collectors I say thank you for reading this, and thanks for helping.
 
1. How can I get the BIOS setup disk?
The setup disk you refer to is the 'IBM Diagnostics for AT' floppy. If you have the ability to create a 5.25" floppy from an image, then the image for that floppy is on a link at http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/51xx_manuals.htm

Alternately, you can use the GSETUP program ('generic SETUP'). It can be found at http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/software/GSETUP.ZIP

Alternately, you also have the option of doing the setup via BASIC code, or by temporarily connecting a 1.44M drive.
Those two procedures are described at:
1. Goto http://www.minuszerodegrees.net
2. Select the 'IBM 5170 - Removing a 161 or 162 Error' link.

2. After I get the disk, would this let me configure the system to adress past 1MB of RAM and adress the HDD?
It should do, however you won't be able to access all of your 40MB hard drive. I suggest that you initially set the drive type in the SETUP to Type 2 (a particular configuration sized at 20MB). Then do the FDISK/FORMAT operations. You can look into the possibility of using more of the 40MB later.

Note that when the 5170 does its RAM count on power up, it will only count the amount of RAM fitted (e.g. 640K base + 2M extended = 2688K), not the final RAM address.

Note that 'expansion' memory is not expanded memory - it's an early term that IBM used to desribe what would later be known as extended memory.

3. Would getting the Intel 80287 Math Coprosessor help me with this feat?
No.

4. And are there any random facts that anybody knows about the PC/AT that would help me?
Some facts are in the 5170 entry on these forum's Wiki.
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showwiki.php?title=Systems:IBM+PC+AT+5170
 
Nice machine!My opinion is that, if you want to use win 3.11 to browse the internet the best option is Opera 3.62 and the second best option after that is an old version of netscape.I have used IE 5.0 in my 386 with 8mb RAM and is VERY slow :(.The best option for you is Arachne DOS browser (latest version here http://www.glennmcc.org/ or Breadbox Ensemble which includes a web browser plus a GUI,office and many applications.
 
Nice machine!My opinion is that, if you want to use win 3.11 to browse the internet the best option is Opera 3.62 and the second best option after that is an old version of netscape.I have used IE 5.0 in my 386 with 8mb RAM and is VERY slow :(.The best option for you is Arachne DOS browser (latest version here http://www.glennmcc.org/ or Breadbox Ensemble which includes a web browser plus a GUI,office and many applications.

The 5170 is an 80286 system; as far as I am aware, the programs that you've cited are all 32-bit applications. Were there some old versions of Mosaic that could function under 16-bit Windows?
 
Oh and the BIOS says it is AVGA Deluxe BIOS from 1990, I checked the ROMs and they are the 2 IBM IC's that came with the system orignally. And does anybody know of an external 5.25" Floppy Diskette drive that would work with a windows 7 or a Windows 98 machine? currently I do not have a way to download programs from the internet to 5.25" diskettes.

And thank you for the responces so far!
 
And does anybody know of an external 5.25" Floppy Diskette drive that would work with a windows 7 or a Windows 98 machine? currently I do not have a way to download programs from the internet to 5.25" diskettes.
You found two 1.2M drives. You could have one in the 5170 and one in the Windows 98 machine.

Of course, 5.25" floppies aren't the only way of getting files from the Internet to your 5170.
If you search these forums, you'll discover that the generic subject of transferring files from a modern PC to an Old PC has been discussed many times.
Some of the methods are shown at http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/transfer/transfer.htm
 
The 5170 is an 80286 system; as far as I am aware, the programs that you've cited are all 32-bit applications. Were there some old versions of Mosaic that could function under 16-bit Windows?
Yes you have right about the windows programs but arachne runs even on an XT and Breadbox Ensemble runs fine on 286
 
I suggest you get it running "stock" first, and *then* upgrade as much as you see fit. For example, the BIOS expects by default one high density 1.2MB disk and one 360K The hard disk type 1 is the ST 412, 10MB. I was searching around for a list of common AT hard drives, not easy as I'd hoped to find the drive types (which is needed when you run the setup diagnostics disk).

In my recent adventures with the AT, I found the problem was with the drive controller. You can't just stick an XT controller into an AT, they're not all compatible. There is also the issue of the internal battery.

Good luck, I am interested to see how it goes.

Bill
 
Well, the drive controller is a 16-bit ISA card with 1 IDE controller and 1 floppy controller (each capable of supporting 2 IDE and 2 Floppy drives respectevly (360K and 1.2MB and 720K and 1.44MB). Yes, drive B: is configured to be a 360K drive. When I try to use the HDD it wont recognise it and this is the same controller used with that drive that came out of an AT clone computer a few years ago.

So I figure that the HDD and the controller will both work, when I get the BIOS Setup Diskette. But do you think this wont work? Even with this AT-Class IDE/Floppy controler?

Oh and yes, the battery is dead. It outputs 6 Volts, but I dont know the amperes that it outputs if I could know the ampres of the battery than I could replace it with a new one.

Thanks for the info

Max
 
So I figure that the HDD and the controller will both work, when I get the BIOS Setup Diskette. But do you think this wont work? Even with this AT-Class IDE/Floppy controler?
The fact that your HDD and controller are AT class IDE (ATA) is not a problem.

One possible problem is an incompatibility between the controller and 5170, but such a possible incompatibility exists with any AT class controller you use (except of course, for the controllers supplied by IBM in the 5170).

One definate problem is the fact that there will be no drive type in the IBM BIOS that matches your 40 MB HDD. There are ways around that (such as drive overlays), but for now, I suggest that in the short term, that you aim to just get the 5170 booting from the HDD. To do that, when you do the SETUP (irrespective of which method you use), set the hard drive type in SETUP to type 2. Then after you've done the SETUP, perform the standard FDISK and FORMAT/S operations on the HDD. You'll end up with only 20 MB of the 40 MB being used, but the HDD will be booting. You can look into drive overlays, BIOS patches, etc. later.
 
Ok, I see, its the controller being incompatable with the 5170 itself, not the drive. The same controller is the floppy controller too and that seems to work fine for the floppy disk drives.

I am going to go the route of getting the orignal setup diskette because I found a deal that it comes bundled with the manual and another IBM diskette " Exploring the PC AT " aswell.

And I have no way of getting that GSetup file on a 5.25" Floppy , once I get the computer booting from the HDD, I will install a parelell 3.5" FDD and run the setup using a temporary 3.5" floppy drive that I will connect to the drive controller, then I will install the 5.25" FDD so the computer will have 2 1.2 MB 5.25" floppy diskette drives, a 3.5" FDD and a HDD. (Which I all hope will work)

Thanks for the info,

Max
 
Hey, I have a somewhat sad update here. I got the manual and BIOS setup diskettes. But it turns out the computer won't except 3.5" drives at all. Oh well. Turns out the HDD is also dead (it was a western digital WD93044-a (Infamous for failing early in their lives). And the PSU has died aswell.
 
Hey, I have a somewhat sad update here. I got the manual and BIOS setup diskettes. But it turns out the computer won't except 3.5" drives at all. Oh well. Turns out the HDD is also dead (it was a western digital WD93044-a (Infamous for failing early in their lives). And the PSU has died aswell.

Don't worry. I'm sure the guys on here will be able to help you get it going again!!!

Just make sure you have a decent soldering iron!! If I can do it you can!
 
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