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Windows 2000 Beta on DEC Alpha XL 266

Chuckster_in_Jax

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I acquired a DEC Alpha XL 266 awhile back. I have read that Windows 2000 Beta build 2128 can be installed on this machine. I found the W2K Beta build 2128 but can't seem to get it to install. I'm not sure if there was a separate version of the beta for Alpha machines.

Has anyone installed this successfully? I would greatly appreciate any instructions on installation. My machine is the Alpha version and I've upgraded the ARC firmware to v4.59 that I got off of HP's website.
 
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Does it have the "alpha" folder on the CD as well as the "i386" folder. I think I have a set of disks labelled NT5 Beta some where both I don't think I still have licence keys. I think that the Alpha support was dropped at the same as the code was re-names Windows/2000.
 
I found a CD image of Win2K Server Beta about 15 minutes after I posted this. This version does have the ALPHA folder(the other did not).
My computer doesn't have an AlphaBios which would have made this a lot easier. It has ARC firmware instead. I'm trying to work with the ARC menus to setup the system to boot, but I keep getting errors saying it can't find the directory or files. There doesn't appear to be any boot floppies associated with this version either.
 
I would try NT4 as a start and then upgrade to 2000. I would try the NT4 Alpha on QEMU instructions to get the installer running and such, not so much on the configuration of QEMU.
 
Iirc, I had a laptop that had a 266 in it, and Windows 2000 Professional went on it with no problems; it was slow but it ran. NT 4 would be much more interesting to run on it, though.
 
OK, I was able to install Win NT 4 on the computer. Turns out there is a utility called Arcinst included on the Cd that you use to create the boot partition and install a loader. Tried to install Windows 2000 Beta, but a dialog box pops up and says it needs 96MB of RAM and mine only has 64MB.
From what I can find, almost all the archives of Win2K Beta releases are for Intel machines. Apparently there was a separate CD for Alpha machines that people never archived.
 
Dunno--ISTR that there were lots of betas for 2K, including at least 2 RCs. I've got every MSDN CD they sent around at that time, so if you want me to check, I can.
 
Okay, so that's covered. At about the same time that the Alpha was dropped from the 2K betas, didn't MS also drop it from the NT4 service packs? I recall a rather abrupt decision to drop support.
 
I sent a PM regarding that, I have access to every Alpha version of 2000 Beta, Alpha, etc for the DEC Alpha.

Sent a PM.

Chuck(G) - Thanks for the offer too.

There is a website called BetaArchive - http://www.betaarchive.com/ that probably has these files. However, just registering doesn't get you access to the FTP server. You have to made 10 contributions before they allow you to download anything. I'm going to signup anyway and see how that goes.

I still need to get more RAM for my machine in order to install the W2K Beta.
 
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It wasn't so much MS that dropped support, but rather Compaq that said it was stopping marketing Alpha boxes for NT. I think it also withdrew the funding Digital had been paying to MS to create the port. I believe there were also Digital staff in MSwho were "let go".

I personally believe that NT on Alpha didn't make sense. There were no mainstream applications on NT that needed the extra CPU horse power. What we needed at the time was faster i/o and the NT Alphas didn't deliver this. Instead it devalued the Alpha brand and made it much harder to sell the much more expensive Alpha's for running VMS or one of the Unix variants.
 
I personally believe that NT on Alpha didn't make sense. There were no mainstream applications on NT that needed the extra CPU horse power. What we needed at the time was faster i/o and the NT Alphas didn't deliver this. Instead it devalued the Alpha brand and made it much harder to sell the much more expensive Alpha's for running VMS or one of the Unix variants.

I would like to have a non-NT Alpha machine, but damn! The prices that are being asked for those machines!
 
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It wasn't so much MS that dropped support, but rather Compaq that said it was stopping marketing Alpha boxes for NT. I think it also withdrew the funding Digital had been paying to MS to create the port. I believe there were also Digital staff in MSwho were "let go".

I personally believe that NT on Alpha didn't make sense. There were no mainstream applications on NT that needed the extra CPU horse power. What we needed at the time was faster i/o and the NT Alphas didn't deliver this. Instead it devalued the Alpha brand and made it much harder to sell the much more expensive Alpha's for running VMS or one of the Unix variants.

I believe this rendition of Compaq's actions being the reason for the end of MS support is correct. I recall being shocked the first time it came from a Compaq representative at an industry show. When I probed the thinking behind the decision, they really couldn't make sense of their actions. My interpretation was that the decision was taken at a high level. Subsequently I would learn that Compaq sold off Alpha's architectural elements to Intel, who would later use them as their own designs in the Pentium series.

As for NT/Alpha not making sense - I must disagree. At the time, there was no high end PC platform anywhere near the Alpha's performance. In an industry not sure it could really make a transition to this IBM PC "clone" platform as a "real, dependable" alternative, the idea that if needed - the horsepower could be bought was a critical decision point. Manufacturers knew there was a "big wrench" they could bring to bear, should their projections of CPU need be badly wrong for a given product.

The PC / Alpha series was responsible for legitimizing the raw platform before available software support warranted it. The fact that it was a DEC product gave many VARs a warm feeling about attempting a PC product direction.

As for the commercial success of the combination - we should not lose track of who the intended customers were. High end Commercial and Government users who frequently wrote their own applications, not general consumers who weren't sure who "Computer" was, or what he would be doing in their home.

NT was the most advanced GUI based OS, MS could offer. The fact that the primary author of the NT kernel was himself a DEC alum would have added considerable comfort to both sides. The success of Apple in marketing to the Scientific / Government community took DEC by surprise. Mandating a GUI based OS for Alpha would have been a big bonus in this effort.

Even though it not commonly known, many Alphas were sold. The failure of DEC itself, is what ultimately doomed the Alpha, which by any other measure was a highly successful processor.
 
Honestly I was recently debating (well ok maybe more daydreaming) about upgrading the drives in my AlphaServer 1000 and thinking if I should just install NT or something to host a windows file server. Samba probably had some dev time since the last time I checked, but x years ago it didn't seem very well developed on Tru64. Though I'd probably be going beyond the capacity that the RAID controller and software would support for my theoretical share.
 
For a time, NT on Alpha made sense. In the 1997-98 timeframe, I was working in a shop that had numerous Lotus Domino servers. At a time when Intel x86 topped out at 266 MHz, Alpha topped out at either 366 or 433 MHz. There was an Alpha-compiled build of Domino available, and it ran extremely well on those high-end processors. We were thrilled with the performance. The biggest problem we ran into was driver support. It took a few weeks for us to run down all the drivers we needed, and replace the hardware that had no drivers available.

We used Alpha boxes for our Domino servers and for our domain controllers and we were very happy with the results. I worked in another shop in my next job that made a similar decision with less satisfactory results. I don't know if the problem was the slightly different hardware they used, or if the guy who did the build didn't know what he was doing. But considering the guy who did those installs botched several Intel x86 installs too, I'm inclined to blame the sysadmin, rather than Alpha.
 
More perspective...

More perspective...

Please consider:

  • Dave Cutler [a primary architect of VMS] moved from DEC to Microsoft in August 1988, taking a significant team with him.


  • DEC released the first Alpha's in 1992 with speeds up to 200Mhz. This was a CPU with a 64-bit virtual memory architecture and 32-bit ALU.


  • To compare, Intel's fastest CPU contemporary was either the 386-DX [40Mhz] or the 486-DX2 [66Mhz], both chips 32-bit.


  • Intel would demo the Pentium (P6) series at 90Mhz in September of the same year, having begun development one year earlier. However first shipments would be limited to 66Mhz parts [maximum] and wouldn't take place until May, 1993.


  • The Beta version of NT 3.1 shipped in July 1992 for both i386 and Alpha architectures.

So when we "compare", we're talking about 66Mhz vs 200Mhz. Instruction rate ratios are even higher.

Thus, for once, the stars aligned for DEC. When they introduced their new Alpha chip, MS had an operable NT for it on hand. NT and it's successors would turn out to be the dominant OS for decades to come.


In my view the introduction of the Alpha constitutes a 10 year lead for DEC. In raw speeds alone, Alphas would outperform Pentiums until the introduction of 1Ghz PIIIs not to mention 64 bit architecture parts.

Competition between NT and OS2 kept many software vendors from going "all in" on an OS selection for quite some time. This would prove to be a critical time for DEC, who failed on several fronts to recognize their gems, and what to do with them to survive.

DEC's most important mis-step was the mistaken belief that they would be better off going after IBM's Mainframe business, forsaking all others. In this decision, they would cast off the PDP-11 line, Submarine the PDP-10 [mainstay of the early WWW] and fail with the Alpha which was positioned to win it all had they changed direction.

I'm gonna go sulk in the corner now. Where did I put that Scotch...
 
I wish I had the article still, but I remember seeing an ad for several Alpha servers in a magazine when I was young (highschool/386 and 486 era) and yeah the specs of the Alphas vs our home desktops were in the range of most computer jokes at the time. It was amazing and led that fantasy of getting an Alpha from that point on. They must have been multiple, I seem to remember something around 600-800Mhz while we were staring at 30 mostly with optional co-processors.
 
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For a time, NT on Alpha made sense. In the 1997-98 timeframe, I was working in a shop that had numerous Lotus Domino servers. At a time when Intel x86 topped out at 266 MHz, Alpha topped out at either 366 or 433 MHz. There was an Alpha-compiled build of Domino available, and it ran extremely well on those high-end processors. We were thrilled with the performance. The biggest problem we ran into was driver support. It took a few weeks for us to run down all the drivers we needed, and replace the hardware that had no drivers available.

We used Alpha boxes for our Domino servers and for our domain controllers and we were very happy with the results. I worked in another shop in my next job that made a similar decision with less satisfactory results. I don't know if the problem was the slightly different hardware they used, or if the guy who did the build didn't know what he was doing. But considering the guy who did those installs botched several Intel x86 installs too, I'm inclined to blame the sysadmin, rather than Alpha.

I didn't say they didn't work I am very suprised any one had any issues with NT or Windows/2000 on Alpha's. They were well engineered and the OS was generally trouble free.

The problem was for 99% of sites it didn't make commercial sense. The extra cost just wasn't usually reflected in better performance. Did you every look at the CPU utilization on the Alphas? I bet it was <20%. Once the Pentium Pro appeared for Exchange and SQL Server all you did when you switched to alpha was decrease the CPU utilization. What you needed (as mainframe buffs still say) was faster i/o and given that alpha and Intel had the same 4.7gb disks and the 32bit PCI BUS and RAID cards so you couldn't get any more IOPS from the Alpha.

As for the drivers many sites also ended up buying an Intel box as well as many third party connectors for Exchange didn't run on Alpha.

However for raw MIPS it was a great box....
 
I was in the middle of the whole dec/compaq/microsoft cluster f@#k. I was working for a large corp at the time, and we were going to switch to alpha / windows 2000 in q1/2000. The day before the announcement, compaq was still "selling" us. And when support was dropped, compaq wanted us to migrate to some other platform and would even give us a discount of $100 per server. It was a big insult from compaq, so they ended up loosing all contracts and we returned the machines that they had shipped.

Anyways, I still have an XP1000 and would love to put the RC of win2k on it. Did anyone ever find win 2k pro axp B2128???
 
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