• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

ST-225 longevity

I just remembered, we had a use for a broken ST-225 at the computer store I worked at. We used to use it as a test load for power supply testing, so I know that spin up very well.
 
i have 3 of these aswell as a could st-251-1s, they all work flawlessly. The 225's drive people nuts due to their chirping on seek. You take the top off them they are remarkably simple, which is probably why they all work to this day
 
I know I was bashing the sound of the ST-225, but I just wanted to make it really clear that I think the St-225 is bad-ass. I put the Seagate ST-225 right up there with engineering marvels such as the 3.3liter V-12 from a 1967 Ferrari 275 GTB.

I actually really like the sound of the St-225... heh...
 
Even drives with bad and physically damaged sectors can often be brought back from the dead so long as track 1 is intact just by using a drop of 3-in-1 under the ground strap to the spindle...Literally one drop of oil on the bearing (which draws in via capillary action) can quiet the noisest old MFM/RLL Seagate for years and add years to it's service life

Deathshadown, I realise all of this is to an extend a guess but I've kept Mobil-1 (0-40w) in my oil dropper can for years and obviously therefore use that for the odd little bearing lube jobs..., but do you think 3-in-1 might be better for this application?

Thanks!
 
Deathshadown, I realise all of this is to an extend a guess but I've kept Mobil-1 (0-40w) in my oil dropper can for years and obviously therefore use that for the odd little bearing lube jobs..., but do you think 3-in-1 might be better for this application?

Thanks!
Actually, zero weight cold oil with a 40 at temp is likely even better for the job -- 3-in-1 stays pretty thin and isn't all that great if the temperature climbs above 180F. While 3000 or so RPM of an MFM drive with a healthy bearing should never get up that high, you get one kind-of burnt with a good solid grind and something like Mobil-1 would probably perform better... though even at the 0W rating I'm not sure how well the capillary action would draw it.

I often use Marvel Mystery Oil for the same reasons... decent flow for getting into the bearing, while providing increased viscosity (and therin protection) at temp. I do bicycle repairs out of my garage in the summer, and I tell you the off the shelf chain oils are too fancy for their own good; Half of them are too think and just drip away or wash away at the first puddle, while the other half are wax suspensions, turning into giant dust magnets. In naval parliance the result of the latter is called mung -- and cleaning mung out of something as complex as a drive chain SUCKS. This is why I keep 0W-20 handy as well as Marvel. Fuel additive oils like marvel are best for dry riding, low viscosity motor oil being better as a pre-treat for wet ride.

Of course, if you can take the bearing apart, that's when you use grease instead of oil -- and don't oil greased bearings; it washes away the grease and can often cause more damage than not adding more lube -- I see this with front wheel spindles all the time where the bearings grind like they're filled with gravel because it got a bit hard to turn, so they flooded it with oil removing all the internal lubricant, and then the oil drips out leaving NO lubrication at all... though dried out grease after a decade or two it's probably time to either pop it apart (risky with a HDD) or start using oil instead -- just be sure it's thin enough to penetrate, while thick enough not to simply drain away.

Though it's amazing how often you can just pop the spindle on a bike hub that most repair shops would just throw away, clean up all the parts in a tub of pine-sol, wash and dry, pack it full of grease, seal it up and it's all good for another three to five years riding... even if people do look at me strange for using heavy duty marine grease inside them. (I'm partial to Lucas brand)
 
Last edited:
I use 3-in-1 for all my hard drive repairs/recoveries because it combines the cleaning and unsticking features of WD-40 but WITH a lubricant.

Typically, I turn the drive spindle side up, put a couple of drops on the spindle hub, run it for 1/2 hour on it's back to work it down into the bearing and then turn it off, flip the drive over and run it another 1/2 spindle side down to let any excess flow out. It's always worked fine for me and even after a year of sitting, they spin right up and work just fine.

Yes, I's say that if your MFM/RLL drive got up beyond 180 F, the choice of lubricant would be the least of your worries.
 
I've always used 5 weight (ISO 22) "white oil" used on commercial sewing machines and embroidery equipment. Good stuff, inexpensive and pretty much odorless and doesn't evaporate as quickly as 3-in-1.

I was also given a bunch of bottles of a synthetic oil by a professional tribologist (look it up). That turned out to be a mistake--it seems that before application, you have to have the surfaces cleaned of every bit of petroleum-based oil. I didn't observe this and ended up cleaning all of the bearings of the "cheese" formed by the interaction of the petroleum and synthetic lubes.

I've also found the ultrapure lamp oil (basically triple-filtered white kerosene (or paraffin oil)) makes a decent cleaner for caked-up grease or old lube. It also works to dissolve adhesive on old labels. It does evaporate, but very slowly (think days or weeks).
 
Thanks for the info on oils, very much appreciated. I was looking at the ST-251-1 and the visible bearing appears to be just a normal sealed ball bearing pressed in; surely there must be an 'upper' bearing inside too, which we can't lubricate?

So I guess as the bearing wears the platters aren't going to be running so true (i.e. wobbling) which presumably would lead to failure of the drive since random vibration would make the heads not centered over what was written.
 
Since we're on this subject...has anyone done any other more complicated repairs (i.e. internal) to the ST-225s? I've had several apart before and they are pretty simple. Just wondering if they would be a good candidate for DIY repair (given some sort of clean box to work in).
 
Thanks for the info on oils, very much appreciated. I was looking at the ST-251-1 and the visible bearing appears to be just a normal sealed ball bearing pressed in; surely there must be an 'upper' bearing inside too, which we can't lubricate?

Oddly enough no, there usually isn't. The spindle is usually grooved to hold itself into the bearing with it only attached on one side. Pop apart a modern case fan to see this same 'single bearing' construction approach in action -- though most cheap fans use a snap-washer to hold it in instead of the grooved spindle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seagate_ST-225.jpg

see, no upper bearing. Single-spindle attachment, just like most fans.

@druid6900 -- leaving it to soak upside-down for that long can result in oil getting on the media fouling the drive, and running them upside-down can cause premature spindle failure, seek past end of platters, and other mechanical failures that totally trash the drive. It's why all the drive manuals of that era say do NOT run them upside-down, or on their sides! You're destroying drives... Had any report track zero bad (basically making the entire disk a brick) yet? If so, that's why.

Remember what I said in a earlier post about how it's like some people treating heat sink compound like they were frosting a cake? Yeah...
 
Last edited:
It's why all the drive manuals of that era say do NOT run them upside-down, or on their sides!
Not "all". For example. Both the ST-506 and ST-412 predate the ST-225. The OEM manuals of both the ST-506 and ST-412 include, "Recommended orientation is either vertical on either side or horizontal with PCB down. The only prohibited orientation is horizontal with PCB up."

So, there is Seagate indicating that side orientation is okay for those early drives. Personally, it doesn't feel right to me orientating them like that.
 
Not "all". For example. Both the ST-506 and ST-412 predate the ST-225. The OEM manuals of both the ST-506 and ST-412 include, "Recommended orientation is either vertical on either side or horizontal with PCB down. The only prohibited orientation is horizontal with PCB up."

So, there is Seagate indicating that side orientation is okay for those early drives. Personally, it doesn't feel right to me orientating them like that.
There were lots of systems that had their disk drives mounted vertically with no problems; only PCB up and vertically on either end were taboo.

And I haven't seen one of the more common causes of noise mentioned, vibration of the ground strap (if the drive had one).
 
I also have a 225 and 251 drive, think the 225 has some issues tho but i've not run it for a good while, maybe it was last run when i made my museum site heh.

Here are the drives on my site, ST-225 ST-251
1 curious thing about the 251 tho, it has a marking of MLC-0 on the cover, wonder what that means.
also have a ST-238 that i can't remember in what state it is in :p ST-238
 
Not "all". For example. Both the ST-506 and ST-412 predate the ST-225. The OEM manuals of both the ST-506 and ST-412 include, "Recommended orientation is either vertical on either side or horizontal with PCB down. The only prohibited orientation is horizontal with PCB up."

So, there is Seagate indicating that side orientation is okay for those early drives. Personally, it doesn't feel right to me orientating them like that.

My high-school friend ran his computer, a Compaq 286 Deskpro, vertically -- and the MFM (RLL?) hard drive with it -- for at least a year without any problems. When he moved the computer to a different room, there was more room on the desk so he oriented it normally (horizontally). After a year operating in a vertical orientation, the drive did not take kindly to operating in a horizontal orientation. That was the first head crash I've ever heard. We managed to salvage all of the source code he was working on, thankfully, but not much else before it died for good.
 
Well, on any multi-platter drives, some of the heads are going to load up, and some of them are going to load down. so, it really doesn't matter if the drive is up-side-down, or right-side up.

Where the problem comes in is when you format it in one orientation and use it in another because gravity is going to have an effect on the heads.

Besides, running it for 1/2 an hour is not going to make a really big difference since it isn't doing anything but spinning.
 
Besides, running it for 1/2 an hour is not going to make a really big difference since it isn't doing anything but spinning.
The frictional movement and semi-liquid bearing action will cause the oil to flow directionally out both sides of the bearing. If there's an excess on one side of the bearing it will very quickly drain through to the other side because of this, and then as it hits the seam for the platter be spattered out across the bottom face, fouling an entire surface and possibly damaging the head.

Physics 101 - Centrifugal force and inviscid flow.
 
I have a question: can I lubricate a 3gb Maxtor IDE drive without opening it? Mine's kinda noisy.
 
So then, how do you keep the lube from coating the platters, if the lube gets sucked up from the bottom, wouldn't it stand to be that the lube would go through a seem anyway? Also, if they are sealed, shouldn't the seems be sealed too? Now on my 412, it's making that same mwaaaskreee sound on spin up when cold, yet reports no bad sectors or troubles, i have turbine oil, and blue marine grease, will either work?
 
So then, how do you keep the lube from coating the platters, if the lube gets sucked up from the bottom, wouldn't it stand to be that the lube would go through a seem anyway? Also, if they are sealed, shouldn't the seems be sealed too? Now on my 412, it's making that same mwaaaskreee sound on spin up when cold, yet reports no bad sectors or troubles,
There are no definite answers. The makers of hard drives of this vintage did not intend for the drive to be mechanically serviced. Each make/model of drive will be different. Some may be so well sealed that it will be next to impossible to get lubricant into the spindle bearing assembly. Even if someone (via dismantling) gets direct access to the spindle bearing assembly, what type/spec grease is required? The manufacturer is unlikely to have published that information. If you come up with something that might do the job, how much needs to added, because too much can cause overheating.

It really is experimental. I've used WD40 on my ST-412s and ST-225s. Good penetration properties, but transports little lubricant. There is the risk that the WD40 might dissolve what existing lubricant there is there. What if it gets into the platter area? It's a gamble. That is why I only do this on drives that are very very noisy, and drives that I'm prepared to lose.
I've yet to try Chuck(G)'s suggestion of white lithium grease, in aerosol form.
 
Back
Top