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PC Floppy Disk Games Copy Protection

Maverick1978 said:
Wrong. I mean no offense by that :) We try our best to point out inaccurate statements and procedures so that anyone sourcing this information in the future will be able to correctly utilize the information given here to keep their machines up and running.

WinImage can image and recreate PC/Compatible 3.5" and 5.25" floppy disks of type SS/DD/HD, varying in size from 180kb up to 2.88mb, but it cannot handle "any size" nor can it handle the vast majority of copy-protections out there. Chuck(G) would probably be best suited to hazard guesses as to which copy protections that it can handle.

For unprotected disks, WinImage is probably the best imaging program out there as it will run perfectly fine on modern hardware. For DOS-based systems, try Dave Dunfield's ImageDisk, and also our own Mike Brutman's DskImage will serve you better. For copy-protected disks, Teledisk or Anadisk is probably the best way to go. Note that these require a pure DOS environment in order to function properly.
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I don't think anyone could have said it better.

So, it has been demonstrated that there are protections that even the mighty Option Board cannot replicate. Anadisk and Teledisk have a good track record in the IBM PC Emulator, but there will be games that may break. The Option Board has its own faults, and there is no write software for the Kyroflux for the PC yet. An ideal solution has yet to be found.
 
tonynou59 said:
Dear fs5500

I own a Copy II PC Deluxe Option Board on my Amstrad PC 1640
Did you have original disk games that I could make copy ?

Thanks in advance.
Best regards.
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"Did you have?"
I have many of original copy protected games with 5.25" 2D format.
Except a few of games, most of games can be copied by Central Point Option Board.
But I don't know it is copied on "Copy II PC Deluxe Option Board"
 
I think that he's stating that he has the Central Point Option Board Deluxe (the 2nd Option Board that Central Point released, with the Transcopy 3 chipset, IIRC)
 
Maverick1978 said:
Wrong. I mean no offense by that :) We try our best to point out inaccurate statements and procedures so that anyone sourcing this information in the future will be able to correctly utilize the information given here to keep their machines up and running.

WinImage can image and recreate PC/Compatible 3.5" and 5.25" floppy disks of type SS/DD/HD, varying in size from 180kb up to 2.88mb, but it cannot handle "any size" nor can it handle the vast majority of copy-protections out there. Chuck(G) would probably be best suited to hazard guesses as to which copy protections that it can handle.

For unprotected disks, WinImage is probably the best imaging program out there as it will run perfectly fine on modern hardware. For DOS-based systems, try Dave Dunfield's ImageDisk, and also our own Mike Brutman's DskImage will serve you better. For copy-protected disks, Teledisk or Anadisk is probably the best way to go. Note that these require a pure DOS environment in order to function properly.
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I've been using WinImage for many years since it was released for Win95 and It's always worked for me. I've copied many ms-dos games that had copy protection based on the disk it's self and it's never failed me. I don't remember the exact titles I've copied as it's been years ago, but it's always been faithful, and always worked in my experience. That doesn't mean it'll work for everything, it could just be that I haven't been trying to copy "really deeply protected disks", but I've yet to ever see it fail. It's because of this usefulness that it's one of the few programs I've happily bought a license for.
 
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kithylin said:
I've been using WinImage for many years since it was released for Win95 and It's always worked for me. I've copied many ms-dos games that had copy protection based on the disk it's self and it's never failed me. I don't remember the exact titles I've copied as it's been years ago, but it's always been faithful, and always worked in my experience. That doesn't mean it'll work for everything, it could just be that I haven't been trying to copy "really deeply protected disks", but I've yet to ever see it fail. It's because of this usefulness that it's one of the few programs I've happily bought a license for.
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WinImage is a great piece of software, and well worth its asking price. As you said, it copies sector-by-sector, it works quickly, easily, and handles the majority of the common PC/Compatible formats. But so far as defeating copy protections, it's only got a chance of doing that so long as the protections are wholly contained within the sectors. It's not going to handle laser-burned hole protections, bad byte protectionis, etc,etc... Though it may handle some of the weaker disk protections out there.

Even the Central Point Option Board/DOB/EOB won't handle all protections, and as Chuck(G) pointed out earlier in this thread (I linked the specific post a few pages ago), these often "defeat" the copy protections by patching the software, circumventing the protections entirely. This precludes us from making a "perfect" backup of that software, though we certainly end up with a serviceable, usable backup copy.

So far as I know, laser-burned hole protections haven't been defeated, though some of them have been circumvented.

Ultimately, the failure of disk-based copy protections is why the industry went to manual/word-based protections, and when that didn't work, they finally just gave up on preventing people from copying the media, and concentrated on making the media unusable unless it had been "unlocked" with a code, cd key, registration, etc.
 
I fount that a few of copy protected disks can't be dumped as .img (TC Image) or written to disk with "Copy across index" Y.

To copy (dump) correctly, this option must be N (disable)

The following games can't be copied with this option Y.


Airborne Ranger
Dr. Doom's Revenge
F-15 Strike Eagle II
F-19 Stealth Fighter
M1 Tank Platoon
Red Storm Rising
Savage
Stunt Track Racer
Sword of the Samurai
X-Men

I don't have them, but these games must be same protection method.

Keith Van Eron's Pro Soccer
Rick Dangerous (I don't have it.)

All of the lists are from Microprose (Microplay / Paragon Software)

*Each copy protected track information


38 0 1 : 8192 bytes / CRC-DATA
38 0 2 : 512 bytes
38 0 3 : 512 bytes
38 0 4 : 1024 bytes / CRC-DATA
38 0 5 : 512 bytes
38 0 6 : 512 bytes
38 0 7 : 512 bytes
38 0 8 : 512 bytes
38 0 9 : 512 bytes


39 0 1 : 8192 bytes / CRC-DATA
39 0 2 : 512 bytes
39 0 3 : 512 bytes
39 0 4 : 1024 bytes / CRC-DATA
39 0 5 : 512 bytes
39 0 6 : 512 bytes
39 0 7 : 512 bytes
39 0 8 : 512 bytes
39 0 9 : 512 bytes


This can be dumped by Teledisk too to run PCE emulator.
 
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Great Hierophant said:
At that price, I'd rather pay for a Kyroflux. I believe it can make .ima images, which is sufficient for any non-protected PC game, which can be written back to disk with Winimage.
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I thought KyroFlux was supposed to be good for protected as well? i.e. since it reads the disk at such an intensely deep level it would just duplicate the copy protection perfectly? Problem w/ KyroFlux is that it is not polished. By that I mean it is not a plug and go solution. If they could put that in a case w/ two FDD, isolated PSU, and SW to read and write then they would be selling much more. As it is though they seem to be doing okay!
 
Yeah unfortunately I've had trouble finding all the things the Kryoflux does and will do in one sitting. Last time I checked it can read most formats and save them to a proprietary format that I don't think is usable, and isn't the format that it supports writing to a disk. To do that you have to send it to them, they'll convert it to another format, then you can get it back from them and write it to a disk.

If it supported recreating and other apps supported reading the disks then I would buy one though. Pretty easy sale actually, I'd love a modern/portable system to back up disks. Even on the road (rarely now a days for me but still desirable) one could sit in their hotel room and back up a set of disks.

Actually I've been debating which system to use for my newish backup configuration. I still need to see if I can get this DOB to work (lol first thing to back up might be the DOB software disks). I'd love to get something vintage-ish to be a backup station. The closest I've come to a potential solution is a Compaq Portable III, although I'll have to see if I can get a 5.25 on there and if I can get the expansion box to function. Then I would have a smaller than luggage size system with possibility of networking and larger drive to store the data on. Could also I guess put to use a zip drive or jazz drive assuming it doesn't end up with a bad disk breaking the read arm or visa verse.
 
To the extent I understand the ipf format, which is what Kyroflux uses to write copy protected images to disk, it requires a level of analysis to figure out how the copy protection works. First priority is given to the Amiga, which is great if you are attached to that system. But there is no automatic tool yet that will turn the stream files into ipf files suitable for writing back for the PC. PC protections tended to be a little more tame than C64, Amiga or ST protections.

Burn hole protection is probably not the hardest to crack, and certainly not the hardest to detect :)
 
Here is a challenge, Lemmings 2 : The Tribes for PC. The floppy disk version comes on 2 HD disks, yet will only functioned as a crippled game unless the original disk is in the drive. No Option Board supports writing to HD disks.
 
I'd start by finding out what was different about the disks. Try scanning them with Anadisk and see what it reports.

A Catweasel will probably do the copy thing.
 
Chuck(G) said:
I'd start by finding out what was different about the disks. Try scanning them with Anadisk and see what it reports.

A Catweasel will probably do the copy thing.
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Okay, don't mean to step on any toes but I thought Anadisk and TeleDisk were sort of off limit discussions here. I know about the issue as much as can be gleaned from the forum archives and google but not much else. Are these kosher subjects or are they really not to be discussed? I spoke to another forum member about this recently and he/she/it was also wondering what is the deal - of course if it can be discussed.
 
Sold the stuff off in 1999 or thereabouts, so it's not my worry--they eventually, as far as I can tell, wound up as the possessions of BAE, who has probably forgotten all about them. There are plenty of shareware copies kicking around, so have a blast--it's no skin off my nose.
 
Chuck(G) said:
Sold the stuff off in 1999 or thereabouts, so it's not my worry--they eventually, as far as I can tell, wound up as the possessions of BAE, who has probably forgotten all about them. There are plenty of shareware copies kicking around, so have a blast--it's no skin off my nose.
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Chuck,

Good to know. I actually recently dled a copy of teledisk last week for the first time. Do you still take SW payments since Sydex is alive and well? ;) Any chance of you putting out a similar utility (either SW or FW or whatever) ever again? I would love to have a command line version of the program (one that I can run entirely from the batch files) w/ some bug fixes. There are a number of old SW programs I would like to use and register but almost all the companies are gone so no way to do so.
 
@Shadow. obviously we can take payments for TD or AD, since we don't own either any more. If you were a registered user in 1999, however, we did agree to support old customers.

@Jimmy, yup, did RainDOS and a bunch of other non-IBM DOS-es, such as COTDOS for the Apricot, HP150 for the HP150 DOS disks--the list is actually pretty long...
 
Chuck(G) said:
@Shadow. obviously we can take payments for TD or AD, since we don't own either any more. If you were a registered user in 1999, however, we did agree to support old customers.
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Chuck,

I was being a bit facetious on the AD and AN front since I know you transferred ownership to another company. However, if you were to create another program which you did own, say something like "CellDisk: a program to SMS your disks" to I'd happily register since I know the money is going straight to you guys. ;)

As I keep saying: I wish old SW authors would setup an "app store" where you can buy the last version of their program (i.e. register it) for cheap (e.g. $0.99 to $5) with the caveat that there would be no updates and no support included. I mean they have the program, they don't need to do nay work on it, they just need to start selling it again!
 
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