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One more 80286 hard drive question

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uriahsky

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Jan 23, 2012
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I am not sure about this but can I put a larger hard drive like a 2.1GB into a 80286 and have it work but only be able to access 504MB of space using DOS 6.2? Isn't the XTIDE BIOS, overlays, etc used to access more than the 504MB limit? If I can do this do I enter the 2.1GB drives actual CHS numbers into my user type, manual entry settings in the BIOS HD table or do I have to do some math on the CHS and enter the settings that end up in 504MB HD. Or is this pointless.
Thank you
Russ
 
For the XTIDE ROM (or XTIDE card) you specifiy no hard drive. The XTIDE ROM takes care of the rest (program runs as an extension ROM from an EPROM or Flash chip)

If you're using drive overlay software (program that installs in the boot sector), then 1024 cyl, 16 heads, 63 sectors - the software will unlock the rest of the drive on startup

Although I think most people will have trouble filling 528Mb on a 286!

Other limitations: DOS 6.2 can only have partitions up to 2.1Gb and can only see the first 8.4Gb of a drive (ish).
Everyone seems to have luck with setting the CHS to a lower number but on my 386 I got 'Harddisc configuration error' which was quite annoying.

Hope that helps, if I've made any mistakes I hope someone corrects me but that's what I've gathered from all the discussions recently. I've only got one machine with an oversized drive and I went with the XTIDE ROM.
 
With no overlay and no XTIDE can I still install a 2.1GB on a 286 with DOS 6.2? If so do I just set the BIOS to the actual CHS that are on the HD or do I set it to 1024/16/63 or some other number. I am still a bit confused.
Thanks
Russ
 
If you can put the correct CHS settings in, then yes - however a 286 BIOS is unlikely to support such drive geometry; at least on the ones I've seen the settings loop back round to 0 after a certain number.

FYI, I was using the XTIDE ROM in a 3Com network card and had several 2GB partitions available. You could also use a Windows 98SE dos boot disk in addition to XTIDE and fdisk/format/sys the drive using that, which will use FAT32 and give you a basic DOS 7.1 system (to which you add your DOS 6.22 utils) - that will let you use partitions greater than 2GB in size.
 
uriahsky said:
With no overlay and no XTIDE can I still install a 2.1GB on a 286 with DOS 6.2? If so do I just set the BIOS to the actual CHS that are on the HD or do I set it to 1024/16/63 or some other number. I am still a bit confused.
Thanks
Russ
Click to expand...
Try it. 1024/16/63 (which is the highest you can likely enter)
See what happens for you then report back.
 
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with a 286 you are stuck with the dos limit of 1024 cyl 16 heads and 63 sectors which is 504 meg but a meg on a hard drive is 1048 so the total space is 528 meg this is the design requirement there is no practical way around it the guy who talks 8.4 gig, that is the limit for 486 motherboards the only practical way to beat the dos limit is with a scsi controller and drive with scsi you do not set the board bios to a drive leave the bios with no listing the scsi contoller handles everything and will run up to 7 drives on it you have to realize the 286 was for mfm or rll harddrives with dos 3.3 32meg partition limit
 
...there is no practical way around it the guy who talks 8.4 gig, that is the limit for 486 motherboards...
Click to expand...
This is absolutely not true. Lots of us have 8.4 gig hard drives now on our XT's and PCs because of the XTIDE controller. The 504MB limitation is *software/BIOS*. Change the software and you break the limit. I've repeated this 4 or 5 times now in the multiple threads that have spawned on this same question.

My PC, XT, 286 and 386 all have 8gig hard drives in them. My PC+XT machines have XTIDE controllers in them. My 286 and 386 machines have the XTIDE universal BIOS installed on a NIC card. My 486 has a Promise VLB card that natively supports larger hard drives. There are lots of options out there. The XTIDE universal BIOS installed onto a NIC card does the exact same thing you're talking about with your SCSI controller. Set the drives to "none" in setup and let the XTIDE BIOS install support for the drives instead.

...you have to realize the 286 was for mfm or rll harddrives with dos 3.3 32meg partition limit
Click to expand...
also not true at all. I'm running DOS 6.22 on my 286, and I have multiple 2 gig partitions on IDE drives and CF devices.
 
yeah I was like "WTF" but hargle covered it.
ROM or overlay software will let you access beyond the 504MB limit.

I'm hoping a simple 1024 16 63 setting for CHS will work and suit the original poster though.
 
hargle said:
...The 504MB limitation is *software/BIOS*. Change the software and you break the limit. I've repeated this 4 or 5 times now in the multiple threads that have spawned on this same question.
Click to expand...
...And I'm sure you'll have many more opportunities... ;-)
 
SpidersWeb said:
Try it. 1024/16/63 (which is the highest you can likely enter)
See what happens for you then report back.
Click to expand...

It works! but... I realize but I realize why I am having a problem. One of my reasons to use a more current hard drive is because I can easily plug the drive into my Vista machine and transfer files back and forth quickly. But if I set the BIOS in my 286 to 1024/63/16 and I Fdisk and Format the drive in that 286 when I go to plug this into my Vista machine it will recognize it as what it actually is? a 2.1GB, not a 1024/16/63, 504MB drive? Right?? If I transfer files over won't there be some kind of corruption? I think that is why when I tried this many of the programs had garbled text and acted funny.

If I use the XTIDE BIOS, (I ordered a NIC card) will have these types of problems? Will I be able to swap the drive between different computers and not have any corruption of data? I think I will order a 504MB drive just in case I do have problems.
Thanks
Russ
 
You don't need to order a 504 MB drive, just use 504 MB on the drive you already have. If you want, I have a 356 MB, a 420 MB and a 545 MB.
 
uriahsky said:
But if I set the BIOS in my 286 to 1024/63/16 and I Fdisk and Format the drive in that 286 when I go to plug this into my Vista machine it will recognize it as what it actually is? a 2.1GB, not a 1024/16/63, 504MB drive? Right??
Click to expand...
Correct. The BIOS on your Vista machine is up to date and knows about larger hard drives.
If I transfer files over won't there be some kind of corruption? I think that is why when I tried this many of the programs had garbled text and acted funny.
Click to expand...
I give it about a 25% chance that it will work. It depends on how your vista machine is talking to the drive, details of which I won't go into here.
Provided the vista machine does not attempt to write any data to the drive (like writing a signature to it or whatever stupid things windows sometimes does), it would be harmless to try putting it on the vista box and 1st READING files off it that you put onto the drive using the 286. If files can be copied off and verified correct, then it should be ok-ish, although the longer I type, the more hesitant I get in suggesting it. You could corrupt your drive if you attempt to fill it on the vista machine if the translation is not 100% the same as the 286. It only takes 1 stray write in the wrong place to completely wreck whatever you've built up on the 286, so only do stuff that you don't mind re-doing if things go wrong!

If I use the XTIDE BIOS, (I ordered a NIC card) will have these types of problems? Will I be able to swap the drive between different computers and not have any corruption of data?
Click to expand...
The XTIDE BIOS is a much safer method, and the way it talks to the drive can be configured so that it is doing the same translation as your Vista machine. Check the xtide universal bios 2.0 testing thread:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf...IDE-Universal-BIOS-v2-0-0-beta-testing-thread

There is a tool: http://kotisivu.lumonetti.fi/ttilli/XTIDE/BIOS_Drive_Information_Tool_v1.0.1.zip that allows you to check the translation on the 2 machines (you'd probably have to boot into DOS on your vista machine to verify it). If the two machines report the same output, then you are golden.
I think I will order a 504MB drive just in case I do have problems.
Click to expand...
This may not actually solve your problem. Even with a drive that is small, the vista box may still be accessing it with a different translation method than your 286. I would hold off on buying any additional components for now. If you find that the XTIDE gives you full compatibility with your 2.1G drive, you may in fact want to upgrade it even further and put a larger hard drive in. IMO, an 8-10G hard drive, built in this century at least, is going to be more reliable, less power hungry and quieter than something from the mid-late 90s, so why not use it? You can probably get drives that size for free from craigslist, but you'd have to pay to get a "vintage" smaller drive...
 
I'll just add that for a 286 machine, 500MB is a staggering amount of storage. It might be useful to ask yourself if it's too much for what you plan on doing. Old software isn't like today's bloated packages, where 20MB is considered "modest" in terms of storage.
 
I can tell you I've just gotten started with my 286 machine and I've filled nearly 60 megs. If this is going to be a test bed for everything you can throw at it I think it's best to have as large a drive as possible.
 
If you're using the drive for mostly passive storage, why not use a network connected to a server that's made for handling lots of files? FAT16 is pretty miserably inefficient when you get to the large cluster sizes needed to support large volumes.

Just saying...
 
You can hook up DOS LanManager to Server 2003 very easily (it just works), not tried later.
 
Mark2000 said:
I can tell you I've just gotten started with my 286 machine and I've filled nearly 60 megs. If this is going to be a test bed for everything you can throw at it I think it's best to have as large a drive as possible.
Click to expand...
Know exactly where you are coming from. I bought a 286/16 new with an IDE 40meg hdd and realised very quickly it wasn't enough storage space ;) Running DrDos 6(and before that Compaq Dos 3.31) so there was no 32meg limit. I put a 240meg drive in it.
 
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