MFM controller cable

[Chuck(G)]

Did you try:


DC800:0

"D" for "dump", "Q" for quit, and so forth as detailed in the MS-DOS reference.

I should add that, depending on the BIOS used for the Xebec, you can either get two different capacity drives on the controller or two of the same capacity drive. In other words, you've got 4 jumpers. You can divide them as 2 for one drive and 2 for the other drive (4 possibilities for each) or 4 for both drives (16 possibilities, but only for both drives).

Xebec BIOSes, depending on their vintage, can do one or the other. That's why I want to see what's at C800:0...

 

[bettablue]

Below is a thread through PM on this subject. In it k2 and I discuss the purchase of a Control Data 20mb Full-height hard disk drive and WD controller. The WD is really the controller I wanted to begin with, but the Xebec was what I could afford. k2 is setting up the controller as we speak.

Along with this purchase, and that of the cable stone is working up for me, the expansion unit will be in great shape and will have enough hard drive space to do what I want quite easilly.

Don't worry stone, there won't be any changes to the cable length and we're still using the pin connector and not the edge conector. So when everything arrives, it will be ready to rock and roll.

There really is only one more question to ask regarding the new setup, and this would primarilly be for Chuck (G) Once I have the WS controller and the Control Data hard disk drive installed, will I HAVE to do a low level format on the Miniscribe drive? Or will it work "out of the box" so to speak? Not that it matters all that much, but since the Miniscribe is already working and most of the DOS configurations are already in place, I could save some time.

What are your thoughts?


Originally Posted by k2x4b524[

That all i needed to know, thanks for the clarification. I'll setup the drive and controller on my test bed over the weekend, give it some spinrite and then it will be ready. But remember, check with chuck to be sure *Far more knowledgeable on these things than i* You may want to low level format the miniscribe to pair it to the WD controller aswell. I'd use the WD it's FAR easier to work with than the Xebec controller..

I will only go for the extra drive IF an only if both can be run from the same controller. It doesn't matter which controller as long as both drives will connect to it, and the drives both run.

I would prefer the WD, but I see in the thread that the Xebec may be capable of running the drive you have. I wasn't able to run a successful debug command though.


Originally Posted by k2x4b524[

Are you planning on using BOTH controllers? Or running both drives off of the Xebec, or the WD? If your planning on using the Xebec, i believe that it will support the 20mb fine, but will have to be paired, and vice versa with the 10mb, but that shouldn't really be a problem, the WD is pretty quick on the format. If you send me the model # of the Miniscribe, i can look up the specs on the drive, as well as how to setup it up for the dual configuration. One of the books i have has ALL the older drives specs in it, saved my ass on numerous occasions. I DO know you have to tell the WD controller the dimensions of the drive, you might want to check, but i think that is common of the controllers of the time, besides, the WD supports a better interleave i believe, so a low level couldn't hurt *may even be required* Also, would you like me to include something like Norton Utilities and XTree Gold on the drive? Anything special you may require?

Originally Posted by bettablue

For what I have planned for this system, 20 Megs for the 2nd drive will be fine, as long as the 10 Meg Miniscribe can be used for booting DOS and all of the DOS commands and programs. This will be a perfect setup.

I don't believe I'll have to format the Miniscribe. When Chuck set up the Xebec controller, the system booted right into DOS on the first try. So I'll want to try again doing the same thing. However, if you give me the instructions for completing the setup, after everything arrives, I'll be fine.

You have no idea how much I appreciate you doing this for me.


Originally Posted by k2x4b524[

That will work famously, I'll see if i can get a dummy setup using my miniscribe 40mb as master and the cdc as slave *so to speak*. If that doesn't work out the way we'd like, i'll give detailed instructions on setting it up as the second drive. But i don't see how it wouldn't, but you may have to low-level your 10mb to pair it to the WD controller once you get it. I believe i have some rather long floppy drive cables that i can turn into straight through for the controller, if that's the case the CDC will be set to drive 1. or 2, *The second drive* in the setup, you'd just have to make sure your 10mb if it's strapped to be drive 0, or 1, *The first drive*. Will 20mb be enough?

Originally Posted by bettablue

Fantastic. I was actually hoping to get a WD controller because they seem to be compatible with more drives than most among other things. OK, here's the config I would like. I want the Miniscribe to be the primary hard disk drive, so I won't have to change anything on it when the other drive and controller arrive. That also means your drive should be left empty. I hope you can at least make sure it's ready to install and accept data as the 2nd drive. I'll be instlling several productivity and business apps on it. Later of course, I'll be adding directories as I need them, but this configuration will be perfect for my setup.

I can make a money order for you, no problem. So, can you get the WD card set up that way? That way, I'll keep my current install and configurations, and you won't have to install DOS, but rather leave the drive formatted, empty, and in park. I can easilly take it from there.

Please let me know if that will work for you.

Thomas.

 

[Chuck(G)]

There really is only one more question to ask regarding the new setup, and this would primarilly be for Chuck (G) Once I have the WS controller and the Control Data hard disk drive installed, will I HAVE to do a low level format on the Miniscribe drive? Or will it work "out of the box" so to speak? Not that it matters all that much, but since the Miniscribe is already working and most of the DOS configurations are already in place, I could save some time.

Most likely you'll have to reformat (low-level) the Miniscribe. As far as I know, Xebec's formatting is not compatible with WD's. So if you want to carry the Miniscribe over, you'll have to save the data from it.

 

[bettablue]

Most likely you'll have to reformat (low-level) the Miniscribe. As far as I know, Xebec's formatting is not compatible with WD's. So if you want to carry the Miniscribe over, you'll have to save the data from it.

That makes sense. So, a backup is in order. Thanks everyone. This thread turned out to be a great help.

 

[bettablue]

When I ran debug, I got a bunch of garbage on the right side. Nothing made any sense. I was wondering if I was doinng something wrong. The main area looks simliar to your table, but the table I get is completely different.

Did you try:


DC800:0

"D" for "dump", "Q" for quit, and so forth as detailed in the MS-DOS reference.

I should add that, depending on the BIOS used for the Xebec, you can either get two different capacity drives on the controller or two of the same capacity drive. In other words, you've got 4 jumpers. You can divide them as 2 for one drive and 2 for the other drive (4 possibilities for each) or 4 for both drives (16 possibilities, but only for both drives).

Xebec BIOSes, depending on their vintage, can do one or the other. That's why I want to see what's at C800:0...

 

[Chuck(G)]

Without knowing what you enter or see, it's hard to say what you've got!

 

[bettablue]

Sorry for the confusion. I don't have a good DOS manual to refer to for the debug command. But I finally found what I hope you want for this. Hope this helps. What I also noticed is that running the "D" command in Debug will give continually different results. The only way to get the same inital result is to end the debug and start it again.

107E:0100 59 5B C3 B9 0B 00 BE 5D - 00 AC 3C 3F 75 02 E2 F9 Y [C9..>].,<?u.by
017E:0710 83 F9 00 75 31 BA 0C 3B - E8 99 0C BE 80 00 8B D6 .Y.u1:.:h..>…0
017E:0720 CY 02 78 00 B8 0A 0C CD - 21 AD 0A E4 74 E7 E8 22 G,x.8..M!-.dtgh"
107E:0130 F1 E8 7E 01 3A 06 B9 3D - 75 01 C3 3A 06 B8 3D 9C gh".:.9=u.C:.8=
017E:0740 E8 03 F1 9D 75 CF B4 13 - BA 5C 00 CD 21 FE C0 74 h.g.u04.:\.M!~@t
017E:0750 04 E8 21 F0 C3 B4 1A BA - 5C 00 CD 21 B4 11 CD 21 .h!pC4.:\M!4.M!
017E:0760 50 E8 11 F0 58 BA 18 38 - FE C0 74 3D BA 3D 38 E9 Ph.pX:.8~@t=:=8i
017E:0770 9B F3 E8 94 00 72 12 8E - 1E 91 42 75 06 80 0E ED .sh..r….Bu…m

After I learned that Thomas was getting a Miniscribe, I re-installed the original Xebec ROM.

I believe it has the following 4 selections for each drive:

306/4/17 off-off
612/4/17 off-on
615/4/17 on-off
306/8/17 on-on

At any rate, it's one of the IBM ROMs, so I think that's the one I put in.

You can check by using debug to look at C800:0. You should see:

55 AA 08 EB 35 35 39 58-37 32 39 31 20 28 43 29   U...559X7291 (C)
20 43 4F 50 59 52 49 47-48 54 20 49 42 4D 20 20    COPYRIGHT IBM
43 4F 52 50 2E 2C 31 39-38 32 20 2C 31 39 38 35   CORP.,1982 ,1985
2E 20 31 30 2F 32 38 2F-38 35 2B C0 8E D8 FA A1   . 10/28/85+.....

If you don't see that, let me know what you do see and I'll look it up. Too many ROMs, too little time.

 

[bettablue]

Chuck, that one gave me a Copywrite IBM 1982. on the right side.

Is there anything else I need to do? As I mentioned I don't have a good copy of a DOS reference manual. So, do you still need the entire grid?

Did you try:


DC800:0

"D" for "dump", "Q" for quit, and so forth as detailed in the MS-DOS reference.

I should add that, depending on the BIOS used for the Xebec, you can either get two different capacity drives on the controller or two of the same capacity drive. In other words, you've got 4 jumpers. You can divide them as 2 for one drive and 2 for the other drive (4 possibilities for each) or 4 for both drives (16 possibilities, but only for both drives).

Xebec BIOSes, depending on their vintage, can do one or the other. That's why I want to see what's at C800:0...

 

[MikeS]

... As I mentioned I don't have a good copy of a DOS reference manual...

Lots of info and even tutorials on the web...

 

[bettablue]

Yeah, that's where I found the info on Debug. I just hope what I got is what Chuck is looking for. I also just ordered a DOS 3.3 manual through E-Bay too, so hopefully I 'll be able to learn a lot more about DOS as I go through that when it arrives.

As an aside, if I can only be sure of the hard drive sale I' ve been working on trying to complete, the expansion unit will be in fantastic shape with only a few minor things to go. I was making a deal with k2x4b524 but he's probably busy with work and family during the week. He's the one with the Control Data hard disk drive and Western Digital controller. So hopefully when we finaly do get to chat, I'll finalize that deal and I can concentrate on getting the last couple ISA cards I want to complete oufitting the expansion.

I can't believe the system is finally almost done.

Next I'm going to turn my attention to the XT computer I got from Hargle last year. We got that one for my wife as a birthday gift. She loved it, and still does. Hargle was good enough to configure it with a 30 Meg hard disk drive, and mono graphics adapter, but I'm going to trade out some of the parts it it with things I removed from my 5150 as I upgraded. I think it's also running an AST six Pack, but it's also missing 64 Kb of RAM. I think I narroed it down to one of the chips on the memory expansion, so I'm going to reconfigure the AST to "forget" the RAM so I can use the 384KB RAM upgrade. I'm also going to be looking for an 8 bit sound card for both the 5161 expansion unit and the 5160 XT. Who knows where this project will take me, I won't be taking the XT anywhere near what I did for the PC though. After that, I want to take on a rebuild of an IBM 5170 AT system.

Then my collection of IBM computers will be complete. I'm not interested in PC jr. or any of the later PCs simply because once they got past the 5170, it seems like everything was already starting to get redundant across the brands.

Lots of info and even tutorials on the web...

 

[modem7]

Chuck, that one gave me a Copywrite IBM 1982. on the right side.

Refer to http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/ibm_xebec/ibm_xebec.htm

Of the two items below, Chuck was expecting you to have item 2.
But it sounds like you have the ROM described in item 1.
Is that the case?

1. IBM ROM used in IBM/Xebec controller variation #1 and #2:
* Stamped "5000059" or "6359121"
* At start, contains text of "5000059 (C)COPYRIGHT IBM 1982"

2. IBM ROM used in IBM/Xebec controller variation #3:
* Stamped "62X0822"
* At start, contains text of "559X7291 (C) COPYRIGHT IBM CORP.,1982 ,1985. 10/28/85"

 

[bettablue]

Yes it is. Chuck loaded the ROM to work with the Miniscribe disk drive.

Refer to http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/ibm_xebec/ibm_xebec.htm

Of the two items below, Chuck was expecting you to have item 2.
But it sounds like you have the ROM described in item 1.
Is that the case?

1. IBM ROM used in IBM/Xebec controller variation #1 and #2:
* Stamped "5000059" or "6359121"
* At start, contains text of "5000059 (C)COPYRIGHT IBM 1982"

2. IBM ROM used in IBM/Xebec controller variation #3:
* Stamped "62X0822"
* At start, contains text of "559X7291 (C) COPYRIGHT IBM CORP.,1982 ,1985. 10/28/85"

 

[modem7]

Yes it is. Chuck loaded the ROM to work with the Miniscribe disk drive.

The question then became which IBM ROM was fitted.

So you have either the 5000059 or 6359121 stamped ROM (same contents). Per the web page I quoted in my previous post, that ROM supports only one drive, one with: cylinders = 300, heads = 4, WPC = 0, Step Rate = 70 uS.
An example of such a drive is the Seagate ST-412.

 

[bettablue]

Yes, That's what we figured. That is why I am replacing it with a WD controller that is being configured for me right now. k2 is getting hid Control Data drive ready to go as well. So by the end of the week, we should have the deal closed. I also have the cables coming in from stone. He set my up with a much longer set to accomodate the extra length required for the 2nd drive.

Modem7, I thank you again. You are always helpful. I apreciate all you've done for me.

The question then became which IBM ROM was fitted.

So you have either the 5000059 or 6359121 stamped ROM (same contents). Per the web page I quoted in my previous post, that ROM supports only one drive, one with: cylinders = 300, heads = 4, WPC = 0, Step Rate = 70 uS.
An example of such a drive is the Seagate ST-412.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Not so--if you have the Xebec card fitted with the option jumpers (just blank solder pads on the IBM version, but Thomas has the Xebec card), you get 4 drive types. Look at the table at offset 3e7 in 6359121, for example. That IBM didn't want to spend 25 cents to add the jumpers must have been to lock to buyers into IBM's drives--I can't explain it otherwise.

Similarly, the Xebec Mitsubishi ROM can accommodate 8 different drive types, but I think both drives have to be the same.

The Zenith Z-100 hard disk option also used a Xebec controller, but I haven't found the BIOS ROM for that one.

No matter, you can tailor ROMs to anything you'd like to support. I shipped the Xebec with a 28C64 EEPROM for just that reason. If you can program an EEPROM, you can make the Xebec do whatever you need.

 

[modem7]

Thomas. In case you are unable to put all the relevant posts together:

* You have a Xebec card, not what some may refer to as an IBM/Xebec card (made for IBM by Xebec).

* Presently, the ROM contents support the 4 drive types shown at http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/ibm_xebec/variation_2_switch.htm

* There are switches/jumpers on the card to control which of the 4 types is used, although the switches/jumpers won't necessarily match with what is shown at the web page I pointed to earlier.

* Because Chuck has thoughtfully fitted an EEPROM instead of a 'vanilla' ROM, you may be in a position (with guidance) to change the 4 drive types supported.

 

[bettablue]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I did think it was the IBM Xebec at first.

So I have to find out if the Control Data fits the drive types in the table. I'll look into that. If not, again, no big deal. A WD card is coming with the drive, and will be preconfigured to operate with the miniscribe drive as drive "C" . Also, once everyting is installed, I'll be completing a low level format, FDISK and final format prior to the fresh install of DOS 3.3 on the Miniscribe drive. I found the software packets for the AST Six-Pack plus, and the 8/16 LAN Adapter. So I'll get those installed and configured too.

I'm not tied to one controller over the other as long as it works. Because I know how stable DOS really is, it will probably stay set up that wy for a long time. That's one of the things I like best about DOS based systems. They're almost bullet proof.

I'm just glad to have this build almost done.

Thomas. In case you are unable to put all the relevant posts together:

* You have a Xebec card, not what some may refer to as an IBM/Xebec card (made for IBM by Xebec).

* Presently, the ROM contents support the 4 drive types shown at http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/ibm_xebec/variation_2_switch.htm

* There are switches/jumpers on the card to control which of the 4 types is used, although the switches/jumpers won't necessarily match with what is shown at the web page I pointed to earlier.

* Because Chuck has thoughtfully fitted an EEPROM instead of a 'vanilla' ROM, you may be in a position (with guidance) to change the 4 drive types supported.

 

[modem7]

So I have to find out if the Control Data fits the drive types in the table. I'll look into that. If not, again, no big deal.

Per the web page I pointed to at post #18, if there is no direct match (ignore WPC if you have to), then you may be able to run the drive at reduced capactity.
Alternately, you may be in a position to go down the path of altering the card's EEPROM contents to match the drive.

 

[bettablue]

Per the web page I pointed to at post #18, if there is no direct match (ignore WPC if you have to), then you may be able to run the drive at reduced capactity.
Alternately, you may be in a position to go down the path of altering the card's EEPROM contents to match the drive.

In either case, whether or not I use the Xebec, or the WD, one of the two cards will work fine. I can try both to see what happens, abd in the end, one will work just fine, possibly both. Without the drive to verify them against, all we're doing is spinning in circles. Don't get me wrong, I know where both of you are coming from. I can afford to be patient for once, and I intend to. If I stay with the Xebec, great, if the Xebec doesn't work as I expect it to, then the WD is the way to go. I'm not going to make a decision until I try both cards. And, yes, the Xebec will be the first one to try simply because it's already working with the Miniscribe.

Don't worry though my friends. I'm not going to just jump into one direction or the other until I have tried things in a logical manner.

 

[Stone]

I also just ordered a DOS 3.3 manual through E-Bay too, so hopefully I 'll be able to learn a lot more about DOS as I go through that when it arrives.

In the meantime, here's a DOS program I've had forever and think it's well worth the time to have and look at. It's PC Computing's Best of DOS Help! I got this disk way back when and it's one of the best, free reference materials I've seen. Simple, easy and menu driven.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/1gevqd9adva7/n/BESTODOS_ZIP