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Good PC to start off with?

Interesting. I run Win95 on a 20MHz 386; OS/2 2.1 on a 486, OS/2 Warp, DOS, Win9x on a P1.

One thing that P1s still have that is very difficult to find on a P3 or P2 is real functioning ISA slots. It seems that after 440BX, there's always something quirky about them if they really exist. I have a lot of PCI cards and 486 PCI, when you can find it, is often strange.

For me, the best "all around" system for running vintage software is a P1. But then, I'm not a gamer. By far, the least useful (read: I don't even bother to put the motherboard in a case) systems are 286s--they can't run 32-bit software and 286 PM stuff isn't terribly useful much of the time. You might as well run a fast 8088.
 
I'd say an early pentium, cheapest to put together, and not too hard to slow down by disabling cache and using utilities like mo slo. Plus using a newer board would eliminate problems with drives, making it really user friendly to upgrade, plus you get ISA slots...
 
Big advantage of 286 over 8088 is the 16 bit slots, so there are lots more cheap expansion cards available (VGA, SoundBlaster, IO, Network etc).
Although a perfectly working 8088 Turbo clone with CGA or EGA would be a nice setup too.
 
If you want to play CGA or TGA games a Tandy 1000 with dual 5.25" is the cheapest way to go especially if you intend to play games using original disks.

A 386DX/40 is next in line for newer games that started using VGA and ran into memory issues (needing full 640K and/os EMS/XMS so you need a 386 memory manager).

The 486/66 is perfect for games that actually need a fast video card (VLB) and still lets you use the turbo switch to slow the system if needed.

The last gasp of DOS games (3d) are perfect on a Pentium 1, no speed issues and boards have plenty of ISA slots if you need a AWE32 and a special game port card for flight sims etc.

The people who specificy one machine to play the whole range of DOS games have no clue what they are talking about. CGA games on VGA look like hell. Fiddling with the system every time you want to play something new is a pain in the rear, plus you miss out having the correct sound card for the games. If you just dabble in old DOS games just use DOSBox on new system and get used to messing with the configs and having crappy audio and video.
 
Unknown_K said:
The people who specificy one machine to play the whole range of DOS games have no clue what they are talking about. CGA games on VGA look like hell. .
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Hate to burst your bubble but that is soooo not always true and bad misinformation. There were a handful of VGA cards that produced CGA & EGA palletes perfectly. One notable example be the Cirrus Logic Eagle II VGA (known for its 100% CGA emulation!). Another is my Wyse WY-7500. Most the cards with this feature will be upper end cards meant for cad/engineering/desktop publishing, not consumer level, nonetheless they do exist! :D

You can indeed run nearly all dos games on a pentium machine, including CGA titles like alley cat or sierra games, in the palletes intended. It requires the right hardware and software. Just because your hardware can't doesnt mean its not possible. Only exceptions are games that check which cpu you have. I can't think of any right now, but I know there were a handful. Out of the 5000 or so dos games I have, only a few wont work on this setup. (less then 10) ;)

So again, I suggest a super socket 7 pentium, with a board containing a few isa slots. FIC or Micronics would be my choice of brand. Team that with an Eagle II and maybe a PAS16/GUS16 and 3dfx Voodoo accelerator, and even a hercules MDA adapter for one helluva all in one dos gaming rig. :thumbsup: (BTW mine is built off a packard bell SS7, think i430TX ;) )

And as far as having to mess with drivers ROFL, just setup multiple boot profiles. 4 options are all you need. 8088 mode / 286 mode / 386 mode / Pentium. You could even get snazzier and setup a few 486 profiles too, but I never seen a need. I just set my 386 mode to be around a DX40 speed. Setup each profile to boot into a gui, like magic menu or some sort of menu system. Only software you really need is mo-slo and/or throttle. Throttle can disable the L1 cache outside of bios, as well as not use HLT commands to slow down the processor if the chipset is new enough. ;)


Throttle is avail here - http://www.oldskool.org/pc/throttle/DOS

Sorry if I seem so harsh, it really isnt my intention, but this isnt the first time I dealt with this subject, more like 100th time. I wish people did more research. If I only had a dollar each time.. LOL! You really can build an all-in-one dos gaming rig, just have to choose the right hardware.

Ahh the debates I had (and won! ;) ) on vogons! Since it is the weekend no homework. Class dismissed. xD
 
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Unknown_K said:
Yup, you have no clue what your talking about.
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Obviously you are a rude moron or just think you know it all. I just schooled you in and yet you still don't see it, spending over an hour of my life explaining it!

CL-GD510 + 520 - ISA SVGA "Eagle II" chipset, known for 100% CGA emulation. (1988 )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Logic

But guess thats not proof enough for you huh? Dont waste my time, troll someone else...
 
I gotta say, P1s are great, but I am a big fan of 486s. I guess if you get a P1, there's no reason not to just get a P3. It's similar tech, except ISA slots, and you get way better performance. I suggest an i486DX2 based PC. 'Bout 100 MHz at the max and still pretty close to vintage.
 
marcoguy said:
I gotta say, P1s are great, but I am a big fan of 486s. I guess if you get a P1, there's no reason not to just get a P3. It's similar tech, except ISA slots, and you get way better performance. I suggest an i486DX2 based PC. 'Bout 100 MHz at the max and still pretty close to vintage.
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As I mentioned, it's those ISA slots and often very quirky way of P3's handling them (usually done with a PCI-to-ISA bridge, using subtractive decoding). Unless you can find a P2-P3 "border" variety with the right chipset, you'll end up cursing the ISA implementation. P1s are very straightforward in regards to ISA slots--and that includes SS7 varieties which can really tease a P3 in terms of speed.
 
I think I still have an Intel made i440TX board floating around here somewhere, wonder if that be the less qirky variety . Problem is 66mhz FSB tops, so dont think a PIII work, but I have used it with a slotket and pga celeron.
 
Yep, I was really just generalizing to get my point across. I haven't ever even tried to use ISA with a post-486 system. I still think i486DX2 is the way to go.
A PC with something like this mobo and a fast 486 would be what you need.
 
Where do I put the PCI SCSI adapter and network cards? I like the P1s and their "combo slots".

For that matter, why P3? P2 is a nice compromise and the chipsets are a bit better behaved.
 
I believe that the 486 ISA, VLB, PCI, and/or any combination thereof is the ultimate DOS gaming platform, fairly reasonable and plentiful. On those few occasions that you absolutley must have CGA, then get a GCA card and monitor or spring for a multisync or a CGA to VGA adaptor.
 
486s are great machines (my fav era cpu btw!) but you'll miss out on some great dos games. Like Carmageddon for example, think it needs a P166? The dos voodoo version is by far the best. Another game, Screamer. Need at least a decent 5x86 to play it decently. Then there's Quake yadda yadda yadda alot of good titles needing more umph then a 486 can give. :(
 
Seems like the OP is keen on a lower spec machine. Nothing wrong with that at all. It really all comes down to personal choice. There really isn't any "right" answer.

Personally I'm in the SS7 camp if you want a wider hw/cpu choice. Nothing wrong with 486s either. I was lucky to get one with pci, ISA, a vesa slot and LBA support. Warp runs quite happily on on a 486dx2/66.
 
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twolazy said:
486s are great machines (my fav era cpu btw!) but you'll miss out on some great dos games. Like Carmageddon for example, think it needs a P166? The dos voodoo version is by far the best. Another game, Screamer. Need at least a decent 5x86 to play it decently. Then there's Quake yadda yadda yadda alot of good titles needing more umph then a 486 can give. :(
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I've yet to run across a DOS game that I couldn't run on either my POD83 or Am5x86-P75 (which is considered a 486). It's all in the video
 
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