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DSD 440 - Who has spent time inside theirs?

Lou - N2MIY

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Apr 1, 2008
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Albuquerque NM / Potomac MD
Folks,

For a few evenings the last few weeks I've been working on both the broken controllers (the one inside the drive chassis) for my DSD 440s. The DSD 440 was an RX02 clone that could be used on unibus, qbus, or omnibus machines.

Does anyone else on here have a DSD440? I troubleshot both, fixed one, and know exactly how to fix the other (it's easy from here.) Before I write too much on my observations, I thought I would ask first....

Lou
 
I just checked... mine is a DSD 880-030. I suspect I know where I can get another, possibly with a VT103, 11/73, DLVJ1, DSD ctl, and memory when it's present owner needs room.

I know the 880 drives are similar to the 440s, but don't know if they share boards in common?

Certainly, the design practices would be the same.

I think there are 3 QBUS and one UNIBUS controllers here too, so any repair experience you could share might help me at some future point.
 
I've got a 440 as well, though it's not immediately available to check out the finer details. As always, I'd be interested in learning what you found. They are relatively common - there are a couple in storage near Toronto and Dave Gesswein has one. Vince probably does too. Major nice feature is the ability to format a true RX02 floppy in standalone mode (no host computer needed).

Jack
 
So I have two DSD440s and they both needed work. One I got from David G. in trade for my TU10 that he restored. That one worked when he gave it to me. The other was bought off ebay. It was a disaster when it came (but that rehabilitation project is for another time. Needless to say, it was a labor of love, but it works now.)

In general, they are very nice machines. As Jack mentioned, they can format RX01 disks without needing to have a computer attached. They are also only half as tall as an RX01 in your rack. They use the venerable SA800 for the disk drives. They have a very useful set of internal troubleshooting diagnostics. The controller board is covered with jumpers, not for configuring the board, but for disabling sections or applying test signals for doing repairs, which are also very helpful.

The biggest problem though is how the controller is mounted inside the enclosure and what it does to the power busbar across the bottom of the board. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/album.php?albumid=63&attachmentid=6798

See that the board is as wide as the enclosure, but is only held in place at the very outer edges. There is a stiff power busbar along the bottom edge that carries ground and +5 to the columns of chips. Small leads come from the busbars to go to the column traces on the PCB. As the PCB flexes from being pushed on by the tight fitting cables, the small leads crack and columns of chips loose power. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/album.php?albumid=63&attachmentid=6797 Of course the middle column looses power first because this is the highest stress area.

So, people start jumpering the power over from adjacent columns that still have power. Both boards in both of my units show this "rework". One of my units got so bad though, that I just removed the busbars completely and replaced them with wire. The wire must be heavy enough, because there is negligible voltage drop at the end of the wire bus. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/album.php?albumid=63&attachmentid=6802 (ugly wiring from adjacent columns still left in place, perhaps I should have removed it.)

I have had other random TTL IC failures in these before, but this time I had an 82S123 fuse programmable rom fail on one of the units. One of the outputs would only go down to no man's land (~2V) when it should have been <0.8V on a low output. I dumped the rom from the other controller and burned an EPROM and made an adapter to replace the bad rom. Of course I have an el-cheapo Needhams PB-10 and so had to make an adapter to read the 82S123. While making the adapter, I also gave it sockets to read all the other kinds of fuse programmable roms in this unit. If anyone else has this problem, I can dump any rom for them. The only place to put the adapter board in the DSD440 was behind the controller, since the front is so close to the SA800s. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/album.php?albumid=63&attachmentid=6800

A few words about SA800s.... There were two versions of the boards on them. The "older" one has discrete transistors to drive the three pole head positioning stepper motor. Big beefy transistors in TO-66 cases. The newer boards got Sprague jam-four-darlington-pairs-into-a-14-pin-dip pole drivers. Of course, it cooked. I replaced it with a much beefier, but similar driver: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/album.php?albumid=63&attachmentid=6801

Lastly, a track zero photogate failed on the older drive (the phototransistor. ) Fortunately I had an exact fit replacement GE H21A2 in the junk box. It must have come from a Tandon TM-100 which I parted out about a dozen of twenty years ago.

This recent round of repairs kept me busy for a while. Last time I worked on them I did full head alignments with an AAD. They all still seem to be in good alignment.

I know these units all too well now.

Lou
 
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Great writeup - Thanks.

I'm thinking I should open up my 880 to see if there any preventative measures I should consider.
 
Folks,
Does anyone else on here have a DSD440? I troubleshot both, fixed one, and know exactly how to fix the other (it's easy from here.) Before I write too much on my observations, I thought I would ask first....

I have one, and mine has failed in a most obnoxious way. There is a set of mode switches inside, implemented
with an inexpensive DIP switch. On mine, the DIP switches failed in such a way that, when I set the thing for a
diagnostic mode (non-destructive read test, IIRC), it reformatted the floppy instead, erasing my boot floppy with
the DSD diagnostic software on it!

One of these days I will get around to pulling the circuit board and replacing the DIP switch.

Vince
 
Hi Lou,

I know this thread is pretty old, but I'm just going through the archives and thought I'd give it a (very, very late) reply.

A couple of months ago got a PDP-11/35 system with a DSD 440. I haven't done anything with it except open it up to peek inside and check for damage - it actually looks pretty clean and free of obvious signs of problems, so I closed it back up and put it aside until I'm done with my 11/35 restration.

Your observations in this thread are very welcome reading.

-Seth
 
Remember to check for a "shipping restraint" on the bottom of the drive. It's often forgotten about. It should be in place prior to moving a drive, and removed prior to any attempt to use.

Always check if there's doubt. I myself check it like a firearm - verify it's removed prior to every use.
 
Yow. Good to know. What's the likely damage if it was NOT in place when the system was moved?
 
I've often wondered myself, since I've found drives that were transported without the restraint, and survived without apparent damage. I know units shipped to us back in the day sometimes did not survive, despite being correctly shipped from the factory. I expect head crashes and G-overloading of platters and arms would be most prevalent.

I guess it depends on how it was moved, and what unlucky circumstances it encountered along the way. Moved by hand, carefully by a potential owner is far different than in the hands of a shipper like an airline, UPS or the USPS.

Look for specifics in the DSD manuals. The 880 had both a Spindle Lock and a Head Lock for some versions. I don't recall the specifics of the 440.

Seems to me I've got 3 of these now. :p
 
Strictly for amusement...

Strictly for amusement...

In those days, we in engineering were often asked why our equipment was so easily damaged. $10,000 worth of disk drive and a $20,000 computer as part of a $4,000,000 system ought to be more robust.

A short investigation resulted in this rebuttal of purchasing's choice of preferred shipper and containerization.
 
The DSD440 had no fixed disk, only two SA800s. Where are the shipping restraints on an SA800?

Both of my DSD440s are broken again. I have them out of the rack and put to the side. I'm running real RX02s in the mean time. The DSD440 repairs make a good winter activity, so I'll come back to them again next winter.

It is amazing how often that very commercial gets referred to in engineering offices. It comes up whenever shipping damage is involved. It particularly sticks in my mind because my mother had that very case in teal.

Lou
 
The DSD440 had no fixed disk, only two SA800s.
Thanks - my mistake. Guess we never used the 440's, only 880's.

Where are the shipping restraints on an SA800?
I only recall a protective "disk sized" card insert. To be put in an 8" drive during shipment. [still have some here - they usually ended up in the documentation notebook]

It is amazing how often that very commercial gets referred to in engineering offices. It comes up whenever shipping damage is involved...
Yeah - I recalled another version of that ad with a gray case... but the memory is priceless.

Both of my DSD440s are broken again. I have them out of the rack and put to the side. I'm running real RX02s in the mean time. The DSD440 repairs make a good winter activity, so I'll come back to them again next winter.
I mentioned the "bus bar" construction issues in DSDs to my friend recently. He returned that "look of disdain" I get when causing him to remember bad ju-ju.

I'll have to power-up my 880s some time to see how they've fared.


Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.
 
SA850 Shipping Restraints

SA850 Shipping Restraints

The DSD440 had no fixed disk, only two SA800s. Where are the shipping restraints on an SA800?
In processing recently acquired documentation, I found a DSD-880/20/30 manual with many of the original materials in it, including the floppy disk shipping items.

These are precision images of the Shipping card [on very thick card stock], Label / write protect instructions [on heavy paper] , and a restraint I don't recall the purpose of [on very heavy cardboard, ~1/16" thick]. EDIT: SEE last image

All images were scanned at the same scale and resolution.

Hope it helps answer this question. Should be sufficient to recreate these if desired.

SA850%20Shipping%20Disk.png



Instruction%20Card.png



Brace.png



EDIT:

Took this screenshot from the Shugart 8XX OEM manual... it explains the use of the various shipping cards.

SA8XX%20Shipper.jpg
 
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Hello!

I know I am 10 years late to the party, but I happen to have the Qbus controller card for the 440 drive system. It is the DSD 4140-01 controller, which is specifically for the SA800 drives (full-height with full-time AC motors).

Any interest?

Thanks, Jon.
 
I'm also late to the party and have a UNIBUS DSD440 drive controller (A4430-4) in good shape -- I have no use for this if someone needs it or wants to trade something for it?

Chris -

1654209312848.jpeg
 
Hello!

I know I am 10 years late to the party, but I happen to have the Qbus controller card for the 440 drive system. It is the DSD 4140-01 controller, which is specifically for the SA800 drives (full-height with full-time AC motors).

Any interest?

Thanks, Jon.
Have a working DSD 4140 QBUS controller with dual 800 drives, emulating RX02 , running RT11 (in SF Bay area). Am interested in it. Thanks Jeff S.
 
Hello Jeff,

I'd be happy to send this to you for the cost of shipping. It has one defect that I can see - pin 6 on the 50 pin connector has been broken off, but my investigation indicates that this is a redundant ground pin and not an active signal pin, so it is likely not a problem.

I'm a new member on the forum, so I can't send you a direct message and ask for your address, and I don't think I want to publish my email address here. So I'm at a loss as to how to exchange information with you about mailing address and such...

Thanks, Jon.
 
Am still interested in the DSD 4140 Q bus bard.. Reach me at: jeffs1024@gmail.com
and we exchange contact info /and to cover shipping. Am also looking for an Emulex UC07 Q-bus board for SCSI.
...Jeff S
 
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