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IBM 5161 on eBay

It's a standard type 2 unit. The 5161s have been going for an increasingly amount of money lately, so I won't say anything about the value other than that I thought the $400 one was way overpriced.
 
Per: The ones that were sold for $400.00 a couple months ago looked like they had a lot a hard life. They had a lot of rust and appeared to have other issues as well. In my own opinion, you're right; those were just not worth the money. At least the seller of those two was up front about their condition. Then we have that Tecmar unit auctioning with a starting bid of $400.00 that just won't sell. If you look at pics taken of the internal case, there is a lot, and I mean a LOT, of rust all over the insides. The TecMar is another one I would stay away from. No wonder it won't sell. Even the cables look like they were run through the mill.

This 5161 expansion unit seems to be in pretty good shape, although the photo of the scratch would seem to indicate a bit of rough handling. Even his description of "usual nicks and scratches on the case as expected from a 30 year old piece of equipment", could still mean a lot of things. I like that the seller is at least telling everyone they're not getting a pristine, brand new looking case. I have to aplaud his attempt at honesty here. And, I like the fact that the seller included that pic of the scratch on the top of the case. At least they're being honest about the overall condition. Other than the cosmetic stuff on the outer case, this expansion unit looks to be in overall great shape! It is clean. The expansion slot covers are spotless and shiny. From what I could also tell, the planar was equally clean and the entire interior dust free. I especially like the matching hard drives. Better pics of the badges would have been nice though.

It's still hard to say what these expansion units are worth as more of them in various conditions have become available lately. But if this one is really in as good of shape as is indicated, it is probably worth the asking price to someone. It will be interesting to see just how many bids this particular unit gets since the last one sold for $800.00. But the last one did include the original documentation, box and packaging materials. As far as pricing goes, I personally think the seller is a bit optimistic.

What I find funny is that when I joined VCF roughly 18 months ago or so, only a few people have ever even heard of an IBM expansion unit. Then after I bought mine from another member here for only $40.00, (allbeit with missing drives and controler) just over what; 3 months ago... all of the sudden expansion units are all over the place. How many have we seen over the last few months; 5 including mine? Plus I know of at least two members of VCF who own one, so that brings the total that I personally know of to about 7 or 8 units. And those are only the ones we know about. How many are really out there just waiting to be pulled out from somebody's closet? Hmm. Too bad we couldn't get some figures on just how many of these expansion units were manufactured.
 
Interesting listing.

Do vintage computer buffs care whether something is completely original or cobbed together from various units? Because if you look at this seller's feedback as a buyer, it's clear that this unit was pieced together from two separate ones that he bought. The scratch on the case of one unit matches the scratch on the case of a drive-less unit (but one with working motherboard and power supply) that he bought just last week for $100 as a "Buy It Now" item.

The seller also bought a 1501492 controller about three weeks ago, and an ST-412 w/Xebec controller about seven weeks ago, and also a bunch of slot covers, so maybe the shiny ones aren't original? The seller also has a second listing for miscellaneous 5161 parts that must have been the leftovers after he had assembled everything. Since I'm not a collector myself I have no clue whether this affects the value, but if I were the seller, I surely would have mentioned that it wasn't an all-original unit.

Or does that actually not matter?
 
For me, I don't care if the parts are from various sources, as long as they're all IBM OEM parts and the correct type for that year.
No way in heck I'd pay $400-800 for an expansion unit. If it was here in NZ my budget would be in the $100-$200NZD range ($70-150USD).
I guess though, if you're rich and really really want one.........

It does come with two ST412's, still a $700 opening bid seems retarded.
It's a bit like antique stores I guess. Buy something for $20, value of which $40, resell for $60.
 
I don't really think it matters that much, as long as all of the correct pieces are there, and that the unit is clean and tested. Yes, the seller should have mentioned some of this in his listing, but in the end, I don't think it is really going to make that much of a difference. My original thoughts still stand. I think the unit he has for sale is overvalued; by how much? I don't know. And, yet, someone will undoubtedly place a bid on it thinking it is far more valuable than it is.

DumbQuestionDuJour; I had to piece mine together a bit too. IMHO you are correct in your assumption. By taking what he deemed as the best parts of two units and building one for sale, he may have hurt the overall value. People are smart, so those like you, and many others out there, will find these listings and put two and two together. Really though, it just comes down to what someone is willing to pay for something that is turning out to be not all that rare. I paid only $40.00 for mine. Then I bought a controller and a couple of hard drives through members of VCF and still paid less than $100.00 all together, plus shipping, which came to just over $75.00. All totalled, I have just over $180.00 in my expansion unit. But then again, I got very lucky.

Does it matter that I had to buy a MiniScribe drive and Xebec controller, then add a CDC drive and swap the controller for a WD? Personally, I don't think so. I still have the original parts the expansion unit came with. There are no individualized serial numbers to indicate that the drive I have installed is the one that came with the unit, or somewhere else. If I want to sell my expansion, I could easily do so as being all original and authentic because all of the parts that were there when the expansion unit was new, are still present and accounted for, including the extender and receiver cards and connecting cable. To me, that's what really matters. To someone else though; well...


DumbQuestionDuJour said:
Interesting listing.

Do vintage computer buffs care whether something is completely original or cobbed together from various units? Because if you look at this seller's feedback as a buyer, it's clear that this unit was pieced together from two separate ones that he bought. The scratch on the case of one unit matches the scratch on the case of a drive-less unit (but one with working motherboard and power supply) that he bought just last week for $100 as a "Buy It Now" item.

The seller also bought a 1501492 controller about three weeks ago, and an ST-412 w/Xebec controller about seven weeks ago, and also a bunch of slot covers, so maybe the shiny ones aren't original? The seller also has a second listing for miscellaneous 5161 parts that must have been the leftovers after he had assembled everything. Since I'm not a collector myself I have no clue whether this affects the value, but if I were the seller, I surely would have mentioned that it wasn't an all-original unit.

Or does that actually not matter?
Click to expand...
 
So while all of you are discussing about this listing and how legit it is/should be, my question, a good question, hasn't been answered yet.
 
One of the bidders (the one who ultimately won it, actually) on the 5161 that I sold specifically asked me whether the serial number on the box matched the serial number on the unit. I hadn't even thought to check that (though yes, they matched), and it led me to believe that the original-ness was important to collectors. I guess not. :)
 
I have been reading everything I have on the 5161 expansion unit. (Trust me, there isn't much) There is no mention in any of the documentation whether or not the expansion unit will work with any PC or XT compatible computer. So, the question would really be, how compatible is the PS2, or model 25 with the IBM 5150 PC, or IBM 5160 XT? Online documentation indicates that the PS2 being IBMs 3rd generation of PC is SOFTWARE compatible, they are not HARDWARE compatible. So the simple answer to your question is; No, the IBM 5161 Expansion Unit is NOT compatible with the model 25, nor is it compatible with the PC Jr. or anything later than the IBM 5160 XT.


DumbQuestionDuJour said:
One of the bidders (the one who ultimately won it, actually) on the 5161 that I sold specifically asked me whether the serial number on the box matched the serial number on the unit. I hadn't even thought to check that (though yes, they matched), and it led me to believe that the original-ness was important to collectors. I guess not. :)
Click to expand...
 
bettablue said:
I have been reading everything I have on the 5161 expansion unit. (Trust me, there isn't much) There is no mention in any of the documentation whether or not the expansion unit will work with any PC or XT compatible computer. So, the question would really be, how compatible is the PS2, or model 25 with the IBM 5150 PC, or IBM 5160 XT? Online documentation indicates that the PS2 being IBMs 3rd generation of PC is SOFTWARE compatible, they are not HARDWARE compatible. So the simple answer to your question is; No, the IBM 5161 Expansion Unit is NOT compatible with the model 25, nor is it compatible with the PC Jr. or anything later than the IBM 5160 XT.
Click to expand...

The big difference between the PS/2's and the model 25, is that the model 25 isn't truly a PS/2. It's an XT class computer that has an 8086 and runs only on the PC bus.
 
Exactly... which is why I wouldn't be surprised if the 5161 worked perfectly fine with the Model 25. Remember, the 5161 is basically just a chassis with a powered ISA backplane; the magic happens with the sender/receiver cards. Unless there's some differences with bus frequencies/timing, or with CPU timing (the 8086 in the Model 25 being faster than the 8088 in the PC), I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Makes me wonder if anyone has both machines and is willing to try.
 
The 5161 Extender card will work in the 5150, 5155, and the 5160 64-256k board but not the 256-640k board. (if your 5155 was upgraded to the 256-640k then = SOL)
It will not work in the 5162 nor the 5170. (maybe they never tested it?)

There is no mention of it's compatibility with any of the PS/1 or PS/2 series of machines.
The article about clone compatibility is yet to be written. I suspect it could work on some of the early BIOS-less 8-bit boards.

This info came from the IBM Personal Computer Service Information Manual, System Compatibility Chart, page 17-2.
 
RJBJR said:
The 5161 Extender card will work in the 5150, 5155, and the 5160 64-256k board but not the 256-640k board. (if your 5155 was upgraded to the 256-640k then = SOL)
It will not work in the 5162 nor the 5170. (maybe they never tested it?)

There is no mention of it's compatibility with any of the PS/1 or PS/2 series of machines.
The article about clone compatibility is yet to be written. I suspect it could work on some of the early BIOS-less 8-bit boards.

This info came from the IBM Personal Computer Service Information Manual, System Compatibility Chart, page 17-2.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't this have been written BEFORE the PS/2's came out?

It's not uncommon for new compatibility to be found for hardware, after documentation is written.
 
evildragon said:
Wouldn't this have been written BEFORE the PS/2's came out?

It's not uncommon for new compatibility to be found for hardware, after documentation is written.
Click to expand...

The manual is the first edition released in Jan, 1989. It only covers the Personal Computer /PC line. I think the PS/1 & PS/2 came out before this manual was released.
Maybe there is a System Compatibility Chart in one of the service manuals that covers the PS series.
 
I notice that the PC XT BIOS released in 1986, is missing the initialise call but the older BIOS (found on 256K boards) has it.
 
I just looked in the Oct.'94 PS/2 Hardware Maintenance Manual, Options and Adapters Matrix, starting on page 311. Ibm does not list the extender card.
There are a lot of other external storage options available for the ISA Bus PS/2 machines.
 
DumbQuestionDuJour said:
One of the bidders (the one who ultimately won it, actually) on the 5161 that I sold specifically asked me whether the serial number on the box matched the serial number on the unit. I hadn't even thought to check that (though yes, they matched), and it led me to believe that the original-ness was important to collectors. I guess not. :)
Click to expand...

You've hit an interesting point. :) I think it is rare to find someone with a genuine curatorial interest - though obviously there are a few. Most people put together anything that suits them and are quite happy with machines that are not historically genuine and often not even likely.

I do agree with you that the seller should have come clean in this case. (Good bit of sleuthing, by the way.)
 
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