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XT-IDE V2, Assembled and verified working

NobodyIsHere

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
2,403
Hi

I just listed one XT-IDE V2, Assembled and verified working.

http://marketplace.vintage-computer.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=114990

Many people here have requested fully assembled XT-IDE V2 boards.

I have been reluctant to supply any assembled units in the past.

Things have changed and I have to consider some new approaches.

The XT-IDE V2 is listed here on VCGM to "keep it in the family".

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

PS, I recognize selling assembled XT-IDE V2 boards may generate some controversy so before you flame me please consider *multiple* people have requested these units here on VCF and also to me directly by email. I have no idea how many but there have been dozens at least. I am sure Hargle gets multiple requests as well.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/archive/index.php/t-32054.html
 
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I'd be interested in a bare board with the bracket and power connector. Are there any other hard to source parts, or parts that need to be programmed?

I looked all over and couldn't find where to get bare boards. Finally, I found pearce_jj's website and ordered a pair of his boards. But, his boards are really meant for CF cards.
 
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Why controversy? It'd be great to see some more out there so best of luck and thanks!
 
Why controversy? It'd be great to see some more out there so best of luck and thanks!

Hi

Well this has been discussed to death several times already. There are legitimate opinions and concerns all around and no really great answers. Maybe people are sick of it already?

For example: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/archive/index.php/t-32381.html

I do know this though; building these things is harder than it looks. The XT-IDE V1 boards were really easy and I still use them. The V1 PCB has much less dense layout.

I never got around to building the XT-IDE V2 until recently. It is trickier to build since it is more dense and has more components.

Many people have asked for these for so long I felt a bit guilty to just leave them stranded. Some have really good reasons why self-assembly is not an option.

Self-building from PCB is still my preferred approach but clearly that's not the case for everyone. I was ideological on the "self-build" method but have recently softened my views a bit.

There is no real "market research" on XT-IDE V2 boards so it seems at least two people have floated the $100 figure in the past.

The price seems kind of low to me in my opinion but it is basically just a guess.

Hargle says he sold the last batch pre-assembled for less but I don't see how that could work given the prices of shipping, parts, everything else.

There has to be some reasonable margin so this board can support other N8VEM home brew projects or there is no point in it from my perspective.

I know some people are going to be hacked off about seeing anyone selling these at all so you might as well just "vent your spleen" and get it out in the open.

One thing is for sure, I am $450+ into this project so far plus many hours, false starts, and *using* some existing bench stock. I have to recover those costs at least.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
Andrew, I don't think that there is a single regular here who would think ill of you for this. As you said, you've fronted the funds for the boards, have time invested into the design, and if you've parts to build them, time to do it, and a need to recover costs - why not?

I'd offer a building service if I had the time for it, only because there ARE people that don't have the ability to solder (though without special considerations, there are few that have an excuse NOT to learn if they're in this hobby...)

Besides. ISTR when speccing out the BOM for my XT-IDE v2 that it was at the $70 mark (assuming that I'm not misremembering and this is the one w/ the UART/extra features available that aren't necessary just to use it as a hard drive card) - I figure that $30 is worth the hour or two it takes to build and test and package and ship.

.... I really need to build my board up.
 
Seems interesting to have on hand, if I ever get my hands on an 8-bit PC again. Where are the specs (size limits, etc) for this board?
 
Hi
The VCWiki article should answer most of your questions

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showwiki.php?title=XTIDE+Rev2

The board is configured as default as possible using what I have in a "known good" configuration. If the buyer wants to change settings they can by moving the jumpers, reprogramming the EEPROM, etc. Since the EEPROM can be reprogrammed in circuit there is no need for a programmer.

Due to the design evolution over the years there are about a bazillion (technical term) ways to customize the XT-IDE. It has spawned a whole mini-cottage industry of clones, compatibles, variants, permutations, combinations, and the list goes on and on.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
There is no issue at all in my mind with charging a proper rate for the parts, assembly, shipping, and carrying the risk on the transaction of course. There is little point having these great projects if they remain inaccessible to a (good) proportion of potential users IMHO.

I also get a steady stream of requests for boards, but have (at last!) a potential solution to that also.
 
There is no issue at all in my mind with charging a proper rate for the parts, assembly, shipping, and carrying the risk on the transaction of course. There is little point having these great projects if they remain inaccessible to a (good) proportion of potential users IMHO.

The "regulars" here reached the exact opposite conclusion the last time around, accusing a VCF member who assembled an XT-IDE and then sold it on eBay two years later of "flipping it for a profit".
 
There were multiple people involved in the development of the board (sort of an open source hardware project). Honestly the more out there the merrier but I'm not one who had any stake in the development or any pride in keeping it local. It's a badass board and useful for all vintage computing people. I would think the more spread out the load and the more made the better for folks keeping their systems up and running for years to come.

I do remember the thread and some heated debate. I *think* most of the upset folks were because of the price vs the actual cost of the board was ripping off end users. Although my only cards are obsolete now too since they're just rev-1 :)
 
The "regulars" here reached the exact opposite conclusion the last time around, accusing a VCF member who assembled an XT-IDE and then sold it on eBay two years later of "flipping it for a profit".

Hi

I recall. I too was disappointed at the naked flipping on eBay. It may not have been the situation you are recalling though. I think there were a couple or more instances of it happening.

However, you see the dilemma here though right? If I offer "PCB only build it yourself" there are many people here upset there is no assembled unit option. If I offer an assembled unit option then other people here are upset that it is profiteering. There is no winning strategy.

Oh well, there is no retreating back to the "PCB only build it yourself" approach now. I am committed to the present course of action come what may.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

PS, I don't think anyone can accuse me of "flipping" though since when I started this recent assembled unit project there was nothing but bits and pieces in a bucket.
 
These cards wouldn't exist if it weren't for Andrew so if anyone is entitled to make money off of them it's him.
 
I've been shipping bare PCBs (entirely of my own design, I'll add) for many months and even with that there is much more effort required than is immediately apparent. Assembling and testing boards is an entirely different proposition - each one takes many hours (for me anyway), not all work, and some get lost in the post.

Like Andrew, I've spent hundreds of pounds and invested maybe a thousand hours, but it's for my own pleasure mostly - it's just a hobby. I have no desire (or time) to make boards, so am supportive of anyone wanting to do so since it is fellow enthusiasts that ultimately benefit from that :)
 
Hi
The VCWiki article should answer most of your questions

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showwiki.php?title=XTIDE+Rev2

The board is configured as default as possible using what I have in a "known good" configuration. If the buyer wants to change settings they can by moving the jumpers, reprogramming the EEPROM, etc. Since the EEPROM can be reprogrammed in circuit there is no need for a programmer.

Due to the design evolution over the years there are about a bazillion (technical term) ways to customize the XT-IDE. It has spawned a whole mini-cottage industry of clones, compatibles, variants, permutations, combinations, and the list goes on and on.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

This is definitely interesting. I like the price and capabilities, and you'll never get an argument from me about either. I'll begin setting aside some bucks for next payday.
Next project request: An ISA 16-bit 4-drive version. lol
Those BIOS are excellent. This board (and even a 16-bit version) would be something I'd sink money into. Expect another order in a couple weeks.
 
I've been charging $35 + actual parts/board/shipping costs for XT-IDE rev 2 boards. Assembling adds value to the item. If you don't think someone's time as an assembler is worth something, your opinion doesn't matter.

Also, consider this: first "community run" aside, the ability of Andrew and crew to do board runs depends on the demand for a large enough batch. The more people who buy boards, for whatever reason, the quicker a board run can be pushed through.
 
I've been charging $35 + actual parts/board/shipping costs for XT-IDE rev 2 boards. Assembling adds value to the item. If you don't think someone's time as an assembler is worth something, your opinion doesn't matter.

Also, consider this: first "community run" aside, the ability of Andrew and crew to do board runs depends on the demand for a large enough batch. The more people who buy boards, for whatever reason, the quicker a board run can be pushed through.

I don't mind assembling, but my eyes are beginning to fail, so parts kits will likely sit until I get off my duff and go get some glasses to do it. lol
Either way, though, I'm hooked. But due to the demands of my collection, the 8-bit XT one will sit on a shelf until I get an XT machine. If someone makes a 16-bit card, though, I have immediate use for about 4 or 5 of them.
 
I don't mind assembling, but my eyes are beginning to fail, so parts kits will likely sit until I get off my duff and go get some glasses to do it. lol
Either way, though, I'm hooked. But due to the demands of my collection, the 8-bit XT one will sit on a shelf until I get an XT machine. If someone makes a 16-bit card, though, I have immediate use for about 4 or 5 of them.
Am I missing something here? 16-bit IDE cards are available everywhere for very little.
 
Not with these features. The thing that got me was the onboard BIOS and the flashing. Haven't seen a 16-bit card that'll support 100+GB drives, always limited by the system's BIOS. The card's BIOS would bypass that limitation. That's what I'm after.
 
You don't need the card to make use of that BIOS. It works nicely in a network card or almost any card with an available BIOS socket.
 
You know, after 32 years in the field, I never knew you could do that with a BIOS chip. Not feeling too technical at the moment! lol

Thank you for that. It explains a great many things. That means, all I need is one card and about 4 or 5 extra BIOS chips. Awesome.
 
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