Microsoft ends support for Windows 8 and 8.1

[vwestlife]

Yes, but does that excuse others doing it against MS? I don't think so. Perhaps you do...

Given Microsoft's radical changes in how they're rolling out Windows 10 versus prior releases, the privacy concerns of its increased telemetry of usage data, and its malware-esque upgrade nags (see below), yes -- I do think a little FUD is warranted.

 

[Scali]

I do think a little FUD is warranted.

I don't think FUD is warranted, ever. I don't tolerate lies from any company or person.

 

[commodorejohn]

Except you're not just condemning lies. You're calling any complaints about Windows 10 and Microsoft's questionable tactics in their marketing push "FUD" even when these issues have been extensively documented, and your only rationale for this is, "well, I didn't have that happen!"

 

[Scali]

Except you're not just condemning lies. You're calling any complaints about Windows 10 and Microsoft's questionable tactics in their marketing push "FUD" even when these issues have been extensively documented, and your only rationale for this is, "well, I didn't have that happen!"

No, and I already covered that in an earlier post. Stop this character assassination. It's ridiculous.

 

[commodorejohn]

I don't think the person who is claiming that everybody who takes issue with this well-documented bad behavior is just a mean ol' Microsoft-hater spreading FUD is in any position to complain about "character assassination."

 

[Scali]

The FUD-part in your posts is that you try to sell a well-documented bug (which has been fixed long ago, as attested to by me and others in this thread) as 'well-documented bad behaviour', implying that it was a deliberate action from MS.
This has already been pointed out earlier, so at this point you are deliberately spreading lies.
Link here: http://www.idigitaltimes.com/micros...ndows-10-upgrade-without-users-consent-489418

 

[commodorejohn]

"Deliberate" and "lies" do not mean what you apparently think they mean.

And yes, that one bug was fixed. Which might be the end of it, except for the part where it's just one facet of an extensive and obnoxious push by Microsoft to get people to move to Windows 10, including persistent nag notices that they've only just now offered a reliable method of disabling (and one that involves registry hacking, no less!) And despite what you seem to think, the fact that it was fixed does not mean that it wasn't an issue, nor does the fact that you personally didn't experience it make a difference.

(And that's not touching on the other issues with Win10 - for instance, the constant phoning home even when explicitly instructed not to...)

(Of course, we could also get into some theorizing about how maybe that "oops! Did we accidentally download 3GB of install files without checking with you first? Clumsy us!" thing wasn't really a "bug" in the first place, but I'll leave that to the more conspiratorially-minded among us.)

 

[Plasma]

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/0...lf-on-and-nags-win-7-and-81-users-twice-a-day

What Microsoft has been doing these past months is incredibly shady. I don't want Windows 10, ever. Hell I don't even want Windows 8 (the "we-removed-the-start-menu-just-cuz-and-moved-all-the-settings-around-and-now-you-have-to-search-for-everything" version).

I never had automatic updates enabled but I used to always install "important" updates without much investigation. Now I have to read the extended description for each one to be sure Microsoft isn't trying to sneak Windows 10 in. For example, KB3112343 published on Dec 8 2015 ("Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems"). This is listed as an important update. The description in Windows update reads "Install this update to resolve issues in Windows". Sounds like I should install it, right? I click on "More information" and get taken to this page.

The title is "Windows Update Client for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2: December 2015". Ok, that sounds fine...the subtitle is "This article describes an update that contains some improvements to Windows Update Client in Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1." Still ok with me...then I read the next section: "This update enables support for additional upgrade scenarios from Windows 7 to Windows 10"...nice try Microsoft, not falling for your sneaky shit. Uncheck update, set to hide. There have been at least 10 updates like this. Stop. Just stop.

 

[mbbrutman]

To the person who keeps getting into flame wars and then reporting the other posts in an effort to get the moderators to intervene ...

Please stop.

If you don't agree with other people after a protracted amount of time, then drop the subject and move on. Not everybody is going to see eye to eye on things. Reporting the posts that offend you because you don't agree with their viewpoint just creates more work for the moderators, and quite frankly we're not going to intervene on something like this. No matter how many supporting links you provide.

Also, stop editing your posts. People don't like debating a moving target.

 

[Scali]

"Deliberate" and "lies" do not mean what you apparently think they mean.

They do.
You claimed Microsoft was pushing Windows 10 upgrades automatically. I pointed out that this was a bug, and it was fixed, so they no longer do it. I and vwestlife both mentioned that it did not happen on our Windows 7 machines.
Yet, even after that, you continued to make the same claim.
At this point you knew it was a lie, because it had been pointed out specifically, so it was a deliberate action to continue spreading the lie. QED.

Which might be the end of it

It is, at least so far, because people have not reported it happening again.

except for the part where it's just one facet of an extensive and obnoxious push by Microsoft to get people to move to Windows 10, including persistent nag notices that they've only just now offered a reliable method of disabling (and one that involves registry hacking, no less!)

You might not realize it, but this is merely your opinion.

And despite what you seem to think, the fact that it was fixed does not mean that it wasn't an issue, nor does the fact that you personally didn't experience it make a difference.

Firstly, I never said it was not an issue. The term 'bug' implies 'issue'.
Secondly, yes, the fact that I did not personally experience it does make a difference. Namely, it confirms that Microsoft fixed the bug, and that the upgrade does indeed not automatically install everywhere.

(Of course, we could also get into some theorizing about how maybe that "oops! Did we accidentally download 3GB of install files without checking with you first? Clumsy us!" thing wasn't really a "bug" in the first place, but I'll leave that to the more conspiratorially-minded among us.)

Still, you couldn't resist mentioning it, could you?
So far, all you've posted is lies, personal opinions and conjecture, trying to pass it all off as fact.
I believe FUD is the adequate term.

Also, grow up.
Firstly, it's 2016, computers and software no longer work the same as they did 20 years ago. Deal with it. I mean, you can complain about 'phoning home', but it's not like this doesn't happen in other OSes, on your smartphone or tablet, or even on many websites you visit... Perhaps even in your car, these days. It's just something you can't escape in this 'always connected' world we're living in.
Secondly, so you don't like Windows 10. Perhaps you don't like Windows at all. Or even Microsoft. Fine, but why do you have to be so pathetic about it? Why can't you just dislike Windows and/or Microsoft in peace? Without the lies, conjecture, flaming other people etc?

And oh, the irony... You'd think I'd get along with someone named "commodorejohn", since the first 4 computers I owned were Commodores as well. Apparently not all Commodore-guys are alike.

 

[Scali]

On a laptop it doesn't make any sense. But I specifically mentioned Continuum (what's in a name?). Where you can just 'dock' your smartphone and use it as a desktop... then undock it again, and use it as a smartphone.

Having a UI mode-switch makes no sense at all. Firstly that would completely break any legacy applications, and it would also make developing applications needlessly complex and error-prone.
Secondly, you don't want to switch, you want to seamlessly continue work when you dock/undock.

Else it'd be like "If I have to use a commandline, I have to completely shut down my GUI and all programs running in there, then get a fullscreen commandline, and start any programs I want to use, and reopen my documents again".
Even if the reopening in the 'new' UI would be automated, that would be horribly disruptive.

Elaborating on that somewhat... Ubuntu is trying to do exactly the same thing.
They call it 'Convergence' instead of 'Continuum':

 

[vwestlife]

You claimed Microsoft was pushing Windows 10 upgrades automatically. I pointed out that this was a bug, and it was fixed, so they no longer do it. I and vwestlife both mentioned that it did not happen on our Windows 7 machines.

Huh?

Read what I wrote again:

My Windows 7 laptop secretly downloaded all 5 GB of the Windows 10 upgrade files into a hidden directory without me ever once clicking on the "Get Windows 10" notification icon.

Having 5+ GB of data being secretly downloaded onto your machine without your permission, especially for those on a pay-per-gigabyte mobile data plan, is an awfully large "bug" to so easily dismiss and forgive. Perhaps you would think differently about it if it happened to you.

And I suggest you lay off the ad hominem attacks. Having a disagreement with someone is no reason to call them "pathetic" and tell them to "grow up".

 

[commodorejohn]

They do.
You claimed Microsoft was pushing Windows 10 upgrades automatically. I pointed out that this was a bug, and it was fixed, so they no longer do it. I and vwestlife both mentioned that it did not happen on our Windows 7 machines.
Yet, even after that, you continued to make the same claim.
At this point you knew it was a lie, because it had been pointed out specifically, so it was a deliberate action to continue spreading the lie. QED.

Well, for starters, as vwestlife said, he actually said that it did happen to him. And anyways, the fact that it is now fixed does not mean that it did not happen; it's still something they did. I have no problems pointing that out after it was fixed because it still reveals a lot about their attitude towards this whole affair.

And "lie" still does not mean what you think it means.

You might not realize it, but this is merely your opinion.

And add "opinion" to the list of words that do not mean what you think they mean. There are a number of documented issues, past and present, with Microsoft engaging in obnoxious tactics to push the Windows 10 upgrade. These are not "opinion," they are verifiable fact.

Firstly, I never said it was not an issue. The term 'bug' implies 'issue'.
Secondly, yes, the fact that I did not personally experience it does make a difference. Namely, it confirms that Microsoft fixed the bug, and that the upgrade does indeed not automatically install everywhere.

Yes, the bug is now fixed. That does not make it verboten as a topic of discussion. It's still something they did.

Also, grow up.

Master rhetoric for the ages, here.

Firstly, it's 2016, computers and software no longer work the same as they did 20 years ago. Deal with it. I mean, you can complain about 'phoning home', but it's not like this doesn't happen in other OSes, on your smartphone or tablet, or even on many websites you visit... Perhaps even in your car, these days. It's just something you can't escape in this 'always connected' world we're living in.

No. I do not have to blindly accept my computer snooping on me because..."it's a Modern Age!" or whatever bizarre non-excuse. And yes, it does happen on other OSes, which is why I don't use them. And it does happen on tablets and smartphones, and I don't use them. And it does happen on websites, which is why I employ browser extensions to prevent it to the maximum possible extent. And it probably does even happen in some modern cars, which is one of many reasons I don't own one. And I will complain about these disgusting behaviors just as loudly with regards to any of these other things...in threads about those other things. This is a thread about Windows, which is why I'm complaining about Windows in it.

Secondly, so you don't like Windows 10. Perhaps you don't like Windows at all. Or even Microsoft. Fine, but why do you have to be so pathetic about it? Why can't you just dislike Windows and/or Microsoft in peace? Without the lies, conjecture, flaming other people etc?

Well, if I were lying, or flaming, that might be a valid question. But since neither are true, I'm not particularly bothered about it.

 

[Scali]

My Windows 7 laptop secretly downloaded all 5 GB of the Windows 10 upgrade files into a hidden directory without me ever once clicking on the "Get Windows 10" notification icon. That was shortly after Windows 10 officially launched last summer. I deleted the hidden files and although I still have the notification icon (until I do the mod above to finally get rid of it), thankfully Microsoft has not attempted to download the Windows 10 upgrade files again.

Clearly he states that it does not happen after the fix.

"obnoxious" does not seem to mean what you think it does. It's a subjective assessment, in other words, an opinion. That was my point, most of what you state is your subjective judgement of Microsoft's actions. You could state the same actions in an objective way, which would make for far more pleasant conversation, as I tried to allude to earlier.

No. I do not have to blindly accept my computer snooping on me because..."it's a Modern Age!" or whatever bizarre non-excuse.

I'm not saying you have to accept it. I'm saying it's a fact of life in this day and age. You have to deal with it.

 

[SomeGuy]

Firstly, it's 2016, computers and software no longer work the same as they did 20 years ago. Deal with it.

"Deal with it" is really a bad attitude to take towards such matters and it is unfortunate that such attitudes are so prevalent. We should be trying to make things better, trying to keep our technology useful rather than having it flushed down the toilet. If you got raped to a pulp every morning should you just put up with it because that is just the kind of world we live in today?

Yes, all most of us can do about it is complain, but in this case if enough people complain perhaps those in power will do something about it. I realize listening to endless complaint can be tiresome, but I don't think anyone here is being forced to read this thread (except perhaps the moderators )

That said, there is a lot of speculation and anecdotal information in this thread. I think all of us wish there were more hard facts. But the unfortunate fact is that unless someone has audited every line of relevant Microsoft update or telemetry code, fully documented what it does and when for people to see, and Microsoft is held to not secretly make additional changes - then we simply have no idea what their code does or will do. As a result all we can do is speculate, report our own observations, and assume the worst.

 

[Scali]

"Deal with it" is really a bad attitude to take towards such matters and it is unfortunate that such attitudes are so prevalent. We should be trying to make things better, trying to keep our technology useful rather than having it flushed down the toilet. If you got raped to a pulp every morning should you just put up with it because that is just the kind of world we live in today?

"Dealing with it" can also be trying to make things better.
I think you read it the wrong way.

I am saying that you can't be in denial about these things happening. They happen, that's a given. So you have to take action in some way.

Let me just say this: Microsoft is smarter than most of us.
Remember Vista? Everyone hated it. Now they love it. Why? Because Microsoft changed the colourscheme from green to blue, and called it Windows 7.
Most people think Microsoft actually listened to their complaints. They didn't. A lot of the 'problems' in Vista just went away automatically, because they were caused by immature third-party drivers and applications.
Microsoft will do what they want, and manage to make you feel like they did it all because of you. They are that good.
I don't think Windows 10 will be any different. At least, I don't assume I have any control over it. I can only choose to use it or to look for alternatives.

 

[vwestlife]

Actually some people are going back to Windows Vista because it's new enough to run most modern PC software, but old (and unpopular) enough that Microsoft isn't bothering Vista users with data tracking/spying "updates":

 

[Stone]

Remember Vista? Everyone hated it.

That's a rather broad generalization.

My primary desktop and primary notebook still run Vista.

FWIW, I never 'hated' Vista, either. So, please, do not include me in that group, OK?

 

[commodorejohn]

"obnoxious" does not seem to mean what you think it does. It's a subjective assessment, in other words, an opinion.

Okay, then I'll go with my less subjective but harsher original assessment and call it "aggressive," which it is.

I'm not saying you have to accept it. I'm saying it's a fact of life in this day and age. You have to deal with it.

"Dealing with it" can also be trying to make things better.
I think you read it the wrong way.

I am saying that you can't be in denial about these things happening. They happen, that's a given. So you have to take action in some way.

If you're not saying that I have to accept it, then what are you saying when you tell me to "deal with it?" Because I already am dealing with it in my own way, which is to absolutely reject and condemn it. I fully acknowledge that it's happening, I just do not accept that it constitutes acceptable behavior.

 

[Scali]

FWIW, I never 'hated' Vista, either. So, please, do not include me in that group, OK?

I didn't hate Vista either.