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Paper tape readers x 2. PLease help.

mubase

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
70
Location
Peckham, London,UK
Hi all. I've just got hold of 2 paper tape readers!! :)
One is made by IOMEC and the other is a SIEMENS.
I want to get them working for use in a project I am working on.
I've posted some pictures below.
I know virtually nothing about these machines so am hoping some of you seasoned pros might be able to help me work out the power and data connections of these lovely machines.
I've posted some pictures below.
Anyone recognise these machines or the connectors that feed them??
DSC00378.jpgDSC00379.jpgDSC00380.jpgDSC00381.jpgDSC00382.jpg
 
First of all - as this is your first post - welcome to VCF.

I guess you are in the UK judging by the 240 Volt setting and the PAT test label...

Can you identify make and model please (and any other relevant text markings) - I can't identify the information I need from the photographs.

Dave
 
oh, sorry, I was on the old site so thought it was just a straight transfer.( i used to log on with the facebook but appears not to be working so i set up a new account. ;) ) My name is Steve, I live in London (UK) and am interested in old technologies and audio electronics/synthesizers.

OK, the larger one is a Siemens T1560. It is a combined reader/punch and looks to run on 240 volts. The power socket appears to be the 3 pin round connector at the back.
The smaller one is an IOMEC P135-20 and appears to be just a reader... It has a rectangular connector at the back with 4 rows of pins (8/9/8/9)...

:D
 
If you set your location in your profile we can see where you are in each post.

The first picture appears to be a punch mechanism from a GNT punch. I have two GNT punches and this looks identical.

The connectors are "Plessey" connectors commonly used by Creed on its Model 75 Teleprinters, and also lots of military equipment.

Sadly they are usually highly priced on E-Bay. e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311532366155

They can sometimes be had at Ham Radio Rallies. The Harwell one might have been a good place to try...

http://rsgb.org/main/news/rallies/

If you get some pictures with the labels in focus it might be possible to locate some manuals....
 
Well if you look at this GNT punch here:

http://www.cryptomuseum.com/telex/santec/gnt4606/

you can see its the same physical layout with the pop-up chad box and the tension arm. However the socket is different. I am a bit surprised I can't find a manual. I would try asking on the GreenKeys list as there are many folks with paper tape on there :-

http://www.rtty.com/greenkeys.htm

Also perhaps the WS19 list as it has a NATO number

http://www.royalsignals.org.uk/

but they can be a bit odd...
... and if all else fails take the cover off and see what is under neath...
 
Hi Dave. Thanks for the links. Had a quick look around on both sites. See what you mean about royalsignals... bit strict... Still not found ANY info on this machine though...
In the meantime I've managed to get inside (it involved taking off the top casing where the wheel is..not too difficult. The power supply goes from the 3 way plessy into another box where the fuse and main switch is. I've taken some pictures.
inside.jpgpunchpcb.jpgpunchsecondary.jpgrf1.jpgrfbox.jpg

The picture of the box with the two blue and brown wires coming out is on the inside of the "RF box" and this is where the 3 way plessey socket, fuse and switch terminate.
Theres also a picture of the transformer with its secondary wires (purple green purple). I'm guessing this would be 15VAC.
 
Hi Dave. Thanks for the links. Had a quick look around on both sites. See what you mean about royalsignals... bit strict... Still not found ANY info on this machine though...

Joint and ask the questions...

In the meantime I've managed to get inside (it involved taking off the top casing where the wheel is..not too difficult. The power supply goes from the 3 way plessy into another box where the fuse and main switch is. I've taken some pictures.
...

Nice. I can't still see what is going on. Are there any 74188/74189 (or 74LS188/74LS189) RS232 driver chips near the lead that feeds the other Plessey socket? If we have these then its RS232. If we don't then it may be current loop, but current loop would usually have 6-pin opto isolaters...

The picture of the box with the two blue and brown wires coming out is on the inside of the "RF box" and this is where the 3 way plessey socket, fuse and switch terminate.
Theres also a picture of the transformer with its secondary wires (purple green purple). I'm guessing this would be 15VAC.

Probably. If its is then that would create the +/- 12V for an RS232 interface...
 
I also 'lucked out' in locating documentation.

I was about to suggest the next best thing would be to take one apart - and then you have done it!

The first thing to document is the pinout of the power connector (PL1). Trace the wiring from PL1 to the fuse, switch, transformer etc and then try and find out which pins are live, neutral and earth. Earth should be easy - it should go to the case/chassis. Live and neutral will be a bit more tricky but the live conductor should be the one that is in-circuit with the fuse. The neutral conductor should go directly to the transformer (it may go via the on/off switch if it is a 2-pole device.

The second thing is to identify whether the beast is serial or parallel (my guess would be serial from looking at the number of pins on PL2) and then what electrical specification the interface is (e.g. RS232, 20mA or 60 mA current loop etc.). If you can trace where the cable goes from PL2 to the printed circuit board; and get a good photograph of the electronic components immediately near where the cable enters the PCB that would be a good help. We need lots of light and we need to be able to read the numbers on the components.

Dave
 
Ok Daves! :) I've sussed out that the right hand pin of PL1 connects to the fuse socket. Bottom pin is GND so left must be neutral.
I've got some pictures of the chips as well!
The chip numbers are 8039HL, ins8250N and p8155H. There are also some nice DIP switches and some EPROMS and RAM.
eprom1.jpgeprom2.jpgins8250n.jpg
p8155h.jpg8039hl.jpg

A few 74ls373's in there as well....
 
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We'll make you an honorary Dave!

The most important pin on PL1 is the earth - so it doesn't kill you!

The 8748 is an Intel micro controller with onboard EPROM.

The 8250 is a UART so we are now pretty certain it is a serial interface! Download the data sheet for the 8250 - find the transmit and receive data pins - and start tracing out the circuit until you get to some of the pins on PL2.

The 8155 contains static RAM, some parallel I/O ports and a timer.

The 8039 is yet another microcontroller - this time ROMless. How many micro controllers does this thing need?

Dave
 
OK, Serial! Excellent. It appears that this thing was built in the 1980s as the chips all have dates no earlier than 1980. I think the latest is 1986. Still isnt that pretty early for microcontrollers!?
I'm going to work tomorrow (I repair studio monitors and studio equipment so I'm hoping I'll find a 3 way plessey and will be able to make up a mains cable.)
Also, the paper tape reel is for 5 hole BUT I've looked at the datasheet for the GNT36 punch mechanism and it says you can change it for 5, 6 or 8 bit.) Also the reader mechanism has a switch for 5,6 or 8 bit data so I'm hoping I can change it for 8...
But before that, lets just get it working. :)
 
Don't forget to thoroughly document all switch and link settings in a notebook NOW before you start playing with something!

I had a TU58 tape deck many years ago at work that was working fine. The 'student' couldn't get it to work - so he started to flip the 16 DIP switches on the back. He still couldn't get it to work. He then asked me why it didn't work. I diagnosed it was plugged into the wrong serial port on the PDP-11 so I plugged it into the correct serial port. It still don't work... Then I found out he had adjusted the DIP switch settings on the back. "If you set it back to how you found them it should now work". Of course, the definition of 'how he found them' hadn't been noted by the student! He spent the rest of the week trying different combinations of DIP switch settings!!! In the end it did work - but (hopefully) he learnt a valuable lesson (or maybe not)?

Dave
 
There are 2 banks of dip switches which I've photographed so won't lose the settings its on now. I'd love a manual though. I'm going to send Siemens archive a message to see if the might have any info... and join the signals and greenkeys groups to see if anyone else owns one of these and has it working (and maybe has a manual..)
 
Hang on i just did a double take! (ive just got up) ooh! What's the model? Have you got a link to the video?
 
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Oh the Trend PTA 612!!! Yes, I had the opportunity to pick onde of these up from the same guy a few months ago but didnt get round to it and NOW ITS GONE!!! :evil:
Probably thrown in a skip with a LOT of other gear!!! :evil:

Very nice machine. I think tomorrow I'm going to attempt a power on. The mains seems simple enough so I'll build a makeshift and just go for it. :)
 
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