Old data: Don't Ask, Don't tell?

[NeXT]

This is a sticky issue that always comes up from time to time. It has some justified pros and cons to it.
The issues is what to do with personal information you find on a machine you have received. The contents can be anything from old manuscripts to QuickTax files from the 90's to emails and company X internal information.

Now of course the easiest thing as the receiver would be to delete the data or format the entire drive and start over, of for the seller to format or even physically remove the drive. While either might be an ideal solution, just in case you run the extreme risk of rendering the machine unusable. The Internet is getting close to 25 years old. While clusters of drivers and system specific data has slowly migrated into private collections some data has never been successfully archived, in part to scrapers honoring robots.txt, that vile little textfile that has has been nothing but problems.
To the point, it makes people paranoid. Data can be lost and simply to assume "grandma's secret recipes" are safe you could be taking the hopes of other machine owners with it. Nobody wants it.
Anyways, while the US military has phased the concept out now the idea of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell seems to work really well for situations like this (on software, not people).

Don't Ask If a machine comes up somewhere which might of belonged originally to a certain person or organization, don't ask the seller or the buyer if there is any interesting data left on the drive. Just that extra push or even the notion that a hard drive might be present ins something might make them remove or destroy its contents. Again, there's the real possibility you will take the last software for that series machine with it.

Don't tell
If you receive a machine and there's just about any kind of personal information on it, don't brag about what you found. Don't even mention that you found something. Let them just assume it contains a valid OS install and perhaps an application or two. You shouldn't need to be reporting on everything you find on the machine unless you find something especially interesting, something either historical or something just so absurd that mentioning it might ring a bell with some programmer from yonder, possibly work done by another forum member sometime in the past. A great example is a friend who stumbled upon by accident what seems to be the source files (or a copy of) used to render the lightcycle scene from TRON.
Just telling people what you found also has the potential to add paranoia. What if there was some guy on some other forum talking about the stuff they found on a machine you discarded? What would you do to ease your mind that this won't happen. You's destroy or otherwise format the drive, again potentially destroying data that is still needed.

I briefly used 68KMLA as a test subject on this concept. It didn't work well, then again it's 68KMLA so you're one case of inbreeding short of qualifying as an Amibay or BetaArchive member, so it's more something that a forum as a whole would need to enforce, else it's more incentive to be ignorant assholes and KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE DAMN STUFF THEY FIND. ffs.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Always ask, if possible. That way you know what to do.

Also be aware that some jurisdictions have laws regarding data on old computers/media. I'm thinking of Massachusetts, whose draconian privacy laws put a data retrieval service out of business.

 

[NeXT]

But it breaks the rule. Is not already common knowledge how to handle old private data on your own?

 

[commodorejohn]

Who makes "the rule" anyway? Who died and made whom king?

 

[SomeGuy]

There is no "rule" unless we count the privacy laws like what chuck mentioned.

Practically speaking, if someone sells/gives you a vintage hard drive, be happy about it, and don't worry the seller about it. Otherwise they may think twice about selling if they happen to have other drives.

On eBay anyway, a lot of sellers honestly assume that old hard drives and floppy disks are completely no longer readable. They might be selling them because they think someone can use them for an art project or something. And more often the seller is just someone who picked up something at an estate sale or some such anyway.

If it is someone you know personally, ask if you want. But those just doing this as a hobby are not a data recovery service.

If you don't have explicit permission it would seem to be good manners to keep any recovered personal data to your self and deny its existence. But, and especially with modern drives, it is usually "best" just to wipe them without looking at them, because you don't want to be liable for possessing certain kinds of information. Although there is the annoying problem that one may need to recover device drivers and software licenses to operate an associated machine first.

It's not a simple problem, and that is why most businesses would rather throw hard drives, including vintage ones, in to a chipper-shredder.

 

[Chuck(G)]

If I'n given a system by a private party, I remove the hard drive for them and return it to them without accessing it. That way, the data becomes their problem and I can't even answer their "What did you find on the drive?" question.

If I can't remove the drive, I'll volunteer to "wipe" it in front of them.

Makes for goodwill and they're likely to think you the next time they're giving a system up.

 

[GottaLottaStuff]

The other problem is that a lot of people (non-computer literate) think that if the PC is dead, then everything is gone. The world is full of P4 Dells with working hard drives and dead motherboards. And the hard drives have Social Security numbers, passwords, and tons of pictures on them.

 

[krebizfan]

I wipe drives if I get one. I don't want to chance a virus on the disk.

 

[vwestlife]

With vintage computers, it's not a good idea to immediately wipe the hard drive, as it may contain irreplaceable software or drivers which are not available anywhere else. So for the sake of preservation, you should make a backup copy or image of the drive, especially if it is a really old drive that could fail at any time or which could benefit from a low-level format.

Just remember to respect people's privacy by deleting any personal documents you find -- or if you can't resist the temptation to snoop, keep quiet about it! Also, don't forget to run a virus scan. An old hard drive could easily have 20-year-old viruses lurking on it. Use a vintage anti-virus program, such as what came with DOS 6.x, as modern AV programs are unlikely to still have ancient viruses in their detection database. This also applies to any floppy disks or ZIP disks that may be included with the computer. Even if the disk contains commercial software, it still may contain viruses. Even permanently write-protected disks have been known to come pre-infected.

 

[Unknown_K]

I run into this all the time, mostly with laptops.

On one occasion a lawyer gave me his main desktop machine but forgot to remove the drives. I noticed the drives were still inside when I got it and when booted noticed they were not wiped. Since I knew him I called to let him know and dropped the drives off at his place of work. 90% of my systems come in parts so I don't have to worry about people HD data.

Many of the laptops I get (mostly Apple) have fully loaded drives in them. The PRAM batteries tend to die and the laptop will not boot so people think they are dead and junk them with the drive inside (too much work to get the machine apart to retrieve them). Most of those machines are sold on ebay through recyclers so getting the original owners attention is pretty hard. I just wipe the drives (not old enough to have special software or drivers and I could care less about somebodies iTunes collection). I do look over older Thinkpads with HDs installed (kind of a rarity since a 6 year old can remove them) but generally don't find anything of importance.

If the data was important to you the odds of you leaving the HD installed are pretty low (Geeksquad could have got the data out for you and wiped the drive as needed). I don't need or want somebody else's data on my machines so the drives get wiped.

 

[SomeGuy]

Use a vintage anti-virus program, such as what came with DOS 6.x, as modern AV programs are unlikely to still have ancient viruses in their detection database.

I've been surprised, "modern" scanners seem to pick up the old vintage viruses I have happened to throw at them. A bigger issue really are all the false positives they throw from harmless poorly coded or over-protected programs due to "heuristic" scans.

 

[ClassicHasClass]

I try to clean out the stuff before I stow the hard disk, but I'll keep interesting applications around.

then again it's 68KMLA

There's a reason I refuse to return there.

 

[KC9UDX]

Does anyone ever find anything they'd care to keep anyway?

I kind of hated to lose a good install of VT2, but really I wanted to repartition and didn't have any way handy at the time to back it up. So poof, quick format.

I perused some WP files on my Kaypro when I got it, just to learn about a previous owner. Not much different than reading notes and receipts that come with a piece of hardware. For instance, I got to read a bunch of interesting stuff about a guy who was in Korea because he accidentally left a bunch of military paperwork in the box for a tape deck I bought. Or, I have a stack of books that I inherited from I forget who, who lived in the late 1800s. There are a ton of handwritten notes of all sorts tucked in those books. Much of it is in Deutsch. Fun to read.

I looked at a bunch of SSTV images on some 1541 disks I got from a guy who has since gone SK. It was interesting to see what kind of images people sent back before I had any interest in that stuff.

But at the end of the day, I formatted all those things so I could use them for my purposes. I can't even imagine wanting to do something sinister with some personal information I would find.

 

[Unknown_K]

What, nobody found nude pictures yet?

 

[luckybob]

In all my experiences, I just wipe the drive if I am sure no hardware drivers (or similar) would be needed. I have seen so many SS# and relevant info, its no longer funny, However, I once got a Pentium 3 era machine. There was a word file on the desktop labeled "to my family". Not thinking twice, I opened it. It was a suicide note.

There were some names of people and 5 minutes on google revealed the person did kill themselves several years prior. I was really torn. Do I open the can of worms, and try to give this info to family members? Or do I wipe the drive and forget the whole thing. It really was quite the dilemma for me. I don't believe there was a 100% right answer in this case. There is something to be said for letting a sleeping dog lie, and not risking the chance to start a shitshow for the survivors. Also, how would the family feel about a stranger reading this? Granted I got the machine from a thrift store, but still, the invasion of privacy was there. However, what if the family had no idea the letter existed, and it would be helpful to them?

In the end. I pulled the hard drive and physically destroyed the drive.

 

[ClassicHasClass]

I looked at a bunch of SSTV images on some 1541 disks

Interesting. What format were they stored in?

 

[Chuck(G)]

In the end. I pulled the hard drive and physically destroyed the drive.

You did the right thing. Grief can be a very private emotion. The family members didn't know about the note before they got rid of the computer and nothing's changed.

I remember picking up a system and getting the very extensive records of the local dental association, including all sorts of personal information. I wiped the drive--I had no business having that information. I suspect that they would have wiped the drive themselves, but this was a machine that needed a special floppy to boot.

 

[vwestlife]

There is something to be said for letting a sleeping dog lie, and not risking the chance to start a shitshow for the survivors.

Good idea. When my cousin was restoring an old house he found some jewelry hidden in the floorboards. When he contacted the descendants of the former (deceased) owner to return it, it started a family battle over who would get it.

 

[KC9UDX]

Interesting. What format were they stored in?

I don't recall. I believe there was a utility for viewing them.

I probably have some of his disks that I didn't repurpose yet. If I run across one like that, I'll make you a copy.

 

[MCbx]

If I get some way a hard disk from sources I shouldn't get hard disks from, I usually use the "don't ask-don't tell" strategy, user's data, meaningless to me, is deleted on format/verify. The exceptions are rare drivers and software, which, stripped off user's files, are archived before.
If I get a machine or disks from someone I know, I usually ask about making a copy (I usually make full images for them), while formatting I delete the data. Again, I archive rare drivers and software stripped off user's data.
I ran recovery software over hard disk once. It was on a... Diamond Flower? desktop in which inaccessible OEM drivers directory has been deleted and previous user told me about it. Nothing more has been recovered. It's hard to mistake EXE files with user's documents.
Since I've seen one C64 disk I don't even look inside user's files unless I have a really motivated need, e.g. previous owner asks me or it's an installation procedure of archived software. This C64 disk contained a full 170kB, stuffed to the last bit, of previous owner's obscene "poetry".

I have an interesting item in my collection - a PC from military communication system. It was working 24/7 so I have a partial screenshot of their system... burned in CRT. Don't know was it secret or not, I hope they decided it while selling the computers to the public.