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I have found a way to write old Mac software to a floppy disk as long it is in a .dsk format but I can’t work out how to get a .sit format to work

Bob101

Bob101

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Feb 13, 2022
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I have found a windows software that is able to write stuff to old floppy disks that a Macintosh can read but when putting .sit files on them the Macintosh can’t do anything with them and this is an issue when a bunch of old applications for Macintosh on the internet are in .sit formats does anyone know a way to un .sit a file
 
maxtherabbit said:
It's an archive format. You need a program called StuffIt Expander to unpack them
Click to expand...
I have tried that in the past and it didn’t work for some reason do I need to use that on the Macintosh it self or on a modern computer
 
Welcome to the complete BS nonstandard image/disk format of the Macintosh. Seemingly doing everything possible to make something like disk images impossible for people not in the know.

I use a late model 68K (lc 575) machine to make my mac floppies. You can use a basic LC or LC II as well with an external SCSI cdrom for transfering files over unless you have a zip drive. I have a pretty limitless supply of CDR's so I just burn a cd with files/disk images I want to transfer to the MAC and copy them over via CD. Then use programs like diskcopy 4.2, 6.1, and 6.3.3 to actually write the floppy disks or mount the disk images. Stuffic expander is a must. If the machine is fast enough TOAST is a good option. ITs like NERO but for MAC.
 
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VERAULT said:
Welcome to the complete BS nonstandard image/disk format of the Macintosh. Seemingly doing evertyhing possible to make something like disk images impossible for people not in the know.

I use a late model 68K (lc 575) machine to make my mac floppies. You can use a basic LC or LC II as well with an external SCSI cdrom for transfering files over unless you have a zip drive. I have a pretty limitless supply of CDR's so I just burn a cd with files/disk images I want to transfer to the MAC and copy them over via CD. Then use programs like diskcopy 4.2, 6.1, and 6.3.3 to actually write the floppy disks or mount the disk images. Stuffic expander is a must. If the machine is fast enough TOAST is a good option. ITs like NERO but for MAC.
Click to expand...
I have a usb floppy disk drive which is what I have been using to write to a floppy disk from a windows 10 pc which works for most files but sit files it struggles with sometimes
 
Actually, it's not that complicated. As said, .sit is a compression format just like .zip, .rar and the like.

If you have a disk image in .sit, just extract it (using Aladdin Extractor 5.11 on Windows), strip the first 86 bytes (edit: or 84, fail to remember) of the file and you end up with an image that you can write using WinImage. I did this all the time to get software on my Classic. However, .sit can also just contain files. In that case, you must extract it on the Mac (a standard install of MacOS can read MS-DOS disks and handle .sit files - so it is easy).

In some cases, I use Mini vMac to convert 400/800k images to 1.44 mb formats, but that's rarely needed.
 
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If I must extract an old .sit for classic mac use I usually do it within Basilisk II. However, I have the convenience of a DB25 BlueSCSI I nicknamed "ark" which I can take the SD from, mount the contained disk image in Basilisk II, and just put whatever files or floppy images etc I need for my classic mac on there. Then I just use a Mac SE or any Mac with both SCSI and a Floppy drive to run off any floppies I might need (or just use a FloppyEMU).
 
Bob101 said:
I have found a windows software that is able to write stuff to old floppy disks that a Macintosh can read but when putting .sit files on them the Macintosh can’t do anything with them and this is an issue when a bunch of old applications for Macintosh on the internet are in .sit formats does anyone know a way to un .sit a file
Click to expand...
It probably needs the file type / creator attributes to be set properly. The original version used "SIT!" as both type and creator.

Here's some info on how to use the OS X command line to show/change them (mainly GetFileInfo and SetFile), but it has to already be on a Mac file system volume.
 
In practice, under classic MacOS when I import a SIT file in to a disk image without the type/creator set, I can't double click on the icons, but I can still drag and drop them to the Stuffit Expander icon, and it will extract it. You can put the icon on your desktop.

I don't know if that will work in all cases, but it usually works for me.
 
maxtherabbit said:
People who compress binary disk images with stuffit are unforgivable.
Click to expand...

Someone keep this person away from MacintoshGarden.

That being said I'm guilty as charged for years because in the early days when I didn't yet have access to an NTFS filesystem I found that FAT16/32 still managed to find a way to foul up Disk Copy images, unless I stuffed it and let stuffit's magical ability to unstuff archives that were "improperly handled" take care of the mess most of the time.

SomeGuy said:
In practice, under classic MacOS when I import a SIT file in to a disk image without the type/creator set, I can't double click on the icons, but I can still drag and drop them to the Stuffit Expander icon, and it will extract it. You can put the icon on your desktop.

I don't know if that will work in all cases, but it usually works for me.
Click to expand...

That's basically what I did and still do. Dragging and dropping the jumbled archive into the desktop alias just about always works unless the archive is actually corrupted.
 
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I'll add in what I usually do - I use Mini vMac and ImportFl and ExportFl (available on the Mini vMac site).

I use ImportFl to get the .sit file into Mini vMac, extract the file using Stuffit Expander, then either:
Use ExportFl to export the disk image to write to a floppy disk on Windows
or
If it's not a disk image I copy it to a blank floppy disk image mounted in Mini vMac then write that image to a floppy disk in Windows.
 
VERAULT said:
Welcome to the complete BS nonstandard image/disk format of the Macintosh. Seemingly doing everything possible to make something like disk images impossible for people not in the know.
Click to expand...
This is a bit unfair. Disk images (and the Disk Copy application) have been apart of the Macintosh ethos since its inception in 1984, with the Disk Copy 4 format released only a few years later. DC4 and later DC6 image formats haven't changed in nearly 40 years, and a lot of the software now available on places like Macintosh Garden were actually imaged 20-40 years ago; said software had previously been floating around on usergroups, BBSes, Gopher, FTP, and early internet archives for several decades prior to being uploaded to places like Macintosh Garden. Only relatively recently have they been uploaded to more modern websites as trademarks expire and copyright exemptions are made for vintage software. So to say that it's nonstandard bullshit is not accurate.

The problem was never the Macintosh, just that users new to vintage Macs are simply unaware just how long software archiving has been going on with the Macintosh in general (which is to say, the entire existence of the product line.) A lot of the software currently on the internet has remain unchanged since the 1980s and 1990s.

However, it would be nice if there was a concerted effort to convert all the original software to more portable formats like raw DSK and ISO files.

For now, a general rule of thumb: Use the Disk Copy 4 format for floppy images. They don't need to be encoded, and can be safely shared with non-Macintosh computers. The format is widely supported by both software and hardware emulators. You can either use the Disk Copy 4.2 application (which I recommend for floppy disks), or Disk Copy 6. Just make sure that if you use Disk Copy 6 to save it as Disk Copy 4 format.

CD, DVDs, etc. use common sense and just save as an ISO.

If there ever is a major shift in all the software archives out there, my vote is for the .MOOF format. It is specifically designed for Macintosh disks. It is open, documented, and has support for copy protection built into the format. This would enable previously-uncopyable software to be made available in an easy-to-use and portable format. More convenient than a raw flux. It's already being supported by several floppy emulators.
 
@olePigeon Unfair..? I dont think so. It is what it is. I do understand the reasoning but like you mentioned, some kind of effort to get it off the cultish mac platform so ALL can enjoy it would be a welcomed and smart move.

I like old MAC's but I also hate old MACS as well. I have at least 20 macs in my collection. So I am unbiased when it comes to my critiques on them. I was never a MAC user. I had to dabble in some hybrid MAC/Windows networking in the later 90's to the early 2000s but that was it until I decided to collect them. ITs the same with my experience with Commodore Machines. And those are much more easily attainable to a beginner/outsider.

It will only hurt the future macintosh collectors/communitry if these efforts never get made.
 
SuperSVGA said:
I'll add in what I usually do - I use Mini vMac and ImportFl and ExportFl (available on the Mini vMac site).

I use ImportFl to get the .sit file into Mini vMac, extract the file using Stuffit Expander, then either:
Use ExportFl to export the disk image to write to a floppy disk on Windows
or
If it's not a disk image I copy it to a blank floppy disk image mounted in Mini vMac then write that image to a floppy disk in Windows.
Click to expand...

THIS, by the way. Mini vMac with ImportFI and ExportFI. You can easily find a virtual HDD with System 7, StuffIt, and Disk Copy pre-loaded. It's the best way to handle those files. Extremely cumbersome, but it works.

Again, if you're working with a DC6 image file, make sure to convert it to DC4. Then, if you like, there're utilities that can convert DC4 to a raw DSK file.
 
@VERAULT Unfair as in the criticism of it being nonstandard bullshit and intentionally archaic, not that it isn't a right pain in the ass to deal with resource forks and the Catch-22 that is StuffIt compressed files. It's like saying Imperial measurements aren't a standard because the rest of the planet uses Metric.
 
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