• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Looks like we have a new PDP-11 fan

Here is his reply to this from 2 days ago:

Please read regarding the Carpet! It is industrial carpet on top of concrete, very thin, no static buildup. The humidity in the room is also kept at a good level. I have never had any static buildup with anything at all ever in that room. Give me a little credit guys...
 
I have never had any static buildup with anything at all ever in that room.
Impossible to know, since most static discharges are not noticeable and cause damage that does not kill a part directly, but drastically shortens its remaining life time. That's why you *always* do ESD protection. Worst thing one can ever say is: "I never had any ESD damage" - because you can't ever know you didn't. You just wonder why something stops working after a week... Well, guess why?
 
Here is his reply to this from 2 days ago:

Please read regarding the Carpet! It is industrial carpet on top of concrete, very thin, no static buildup. The humidity in the room is also kept at a good level. I have never had any static buildup with anything at all ever in that room. Give me a little credit guys...
He seems like a smart guy and I really enjoy his content. Let's hope he takes this as a learning opportunity and in the future we see anti-static bags, and other precautions... :)

I generally keep the humidity level in my Lab between 35% - 45% as a balance to prevent both static buildup as well as any potential mold growth. One of my latest acquisitions was a whole bunch of PDP-11 stuff that had unfortunately been stored an a damp, humid basement.

-Chris
 
It's worth bearing in mind the DEC policy on anti-static procedures for their field engineers - firstly DEC provided "Digital" watches which had an earthing stud on the wrist strap, so there was no excuse for not using a grounding lead to the system chassis or earth... Secondly, if a spare board was taken out of its anti-static bag to try in a system - and returned to it's bag using ALL the correct precautions, the board went for testing - never back into spares stock.

As has been said, the amount of static required to damage chips is in the 10's of volts - and often less than 15 volts for modern ram and CPU parts - but damage doesn't mean "instant failure" - it means the part is damaged internally and WILL fail sooner. Maybe an hour - maybe a month, maybe longer - but it is degraded, permanently.

So many people think PCs all crash / blue screen as a matter of course, but they do not when built using anti-static precautions and good practices. I have seen sellers at computer fairs wiping ram and CPU contacts on shirts and worse, before selling the parts in plain plastic bags - it makes me cringe. I have had systems run for months between reboots and in some cases up to two years and almost never see blue screen crashes on the hundreds of systems I have built and installed.

Good practice matters - and the CPUs are MOS chips on the 11/73 and 11/83 boards... Do you want to risk yours?
 
I was lucky enough to get hundreds of anti-static bags that are the perfect size for Hex UNIBUS cards from a friend of mine - that coupled with Wine boxes are a great storage solution. I think I'm up to about 150 cards now!

This same storage solution works great for the VAX 11/780, 8650 and 6000 board sets that I have as well.

-Chris
Im on the hunt for alot of bags cheap. Seems my pickups and purchases are just not coming with them these days and I have since used up all my stashes of them. Buying new bags is really really expensive too.
 
I see a common practice of putting boards on top of static-shield bags.

These bags are not coated on the outside, and provide no protection on the outside as a result.

Still, probably better than carpet, no matter what he says about thickness, concrete, humidity (unless it's rather soggy), etc.
 
I think those dirt cheap self adhesive lenoleum squares would be a better choice over any carpeting(even low pile self adhesive square carpet).
 
The 11/44 FPU is all TTL so it is not that sensitive to static electricity. The big chips are AM2901 bit slice ALU. Made in bipolar technology. Not usually damaged easily.
Yes, TTL has the highest ESD resistance. Tek did interesting relative testing on this issue by dumping a fixed charge energy into different types of IC's TTL, cmos, transistors, diodes etc.

The most vulnerable ones would be IC's on the board where their gate inputs are connected to the edge connector and not tied anywhere with the board unplugged. Though some manufacturers realized this and put tie resistors on those which help when the card is unplugged. Others, where the inputs are tied to other gate outputs in the circuit are super robust to ESD damage, especially in the case of TTL.
 
Im on the hunt for alot of bags cheap. Seems my pickups and purchases are just not coming with them these days and I have since used up all my stashes of them. Buying new bags is really really expensive too.
I got these on amazon.
They are 11x13in bags I use for quad QBus boards. 10 for $8.99 - $.90 each not dirt cheap but relative to a $300-$500 CPU/memory board is not bad.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08F9BTSHL - 11in x 13in for quad QBus

Here are 8x10in bags I used for dual Qbus cards and regular PCI/PCI-3 boards. 100 currently for $10.95 so about 10 cents
https://www.amazon.com/MWRF-Source-Anti-Static-Electronic-Devices/dp/B07T8CZ8F5 - 8x10in for dual QBus
 
I got these on amazon.
They are 11x13in bags I use for quad QBus boards. 10 for $8.99 - $.90 each not dirt cheap but relative to a $300-$500 CPU/memory board is not bad.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08F9BTSHL - 11in x 13in for quad QBus

Here are 8x10in bags I used for dual Qbus cards and regular PCI/PCI-3 boards. 100 currently for $10.95 so about 10 cents
https://www.amazon.com/MWRF-Source-Anti-Static-Electronic-Devices/dp/B07T8CZ8F5 - 8x10in for dual QBus
Your second link of 8 x 10 bags is showing up as 4 x 6. I needes those so I bought them anyway.
 
Your second link of 8 x 10 bags is showing up as 4 x 6. I needes those so I bought them anyway.
Hmmm. I had that same problem when I looked them up from my orders list. I had to search for "203x254 mm anti-static bag" to get them to come up. And now I can't get them to come up at all. Amazon makes it so hard sometimes showing things you don't search for. I"m pretty sure that if you work hard enough they should come up. THe full title is "MWRF Source 100 PC Zip Lock Anti-Static Bags and Labels for Electronic Devices, 8x10 inches, 203x254 mm" so maybe some sort of combination will get you there.
 
It's just not that expensive to spray down your carpet, tile, desk, and everything else with a static-dissapative chemical. It's not a replacement for ESD bags, but it goes a very long way to not stressing components should you set something down or not wear a strap, etc.
 
Looks like he got a big donation of VAX and PDP-11 stuff to the channel:


Ohhhhh! He's got the 11/44 CIS boardset! Wow - I thought these were nearly impossible to find!
1679252660844.png

-Chris
 
Last edited:
Absolutely ZERO bunnies this episode... I mean... I just feel cheated..... Seems you cat loving weirdos lured him into your cat-cult.
 
Duncan, BC has an average and steady humidity north of 70% and around 60 inches of rain a year. Is there really that much indoor static under these conditions?

Jerry
 
Back
Top