Aftermarket Applemouse II? Did they exist? Or Schematics to make one?

[VERAULT]

Yes the V2 analog I sell can be used with firmware that makes it a VGA card, OR a z80 applicard Softcard for CP/M, OR a USB mouse card as the card I sell has IRQ built into it.
Unless you are a purest who wants to have only original hardware, a USB mouse setup will do the job. In truth there aren't that many things for the standard apple II which use mice. Its a bit of a novelty. Sure Mouse Desk is very interesting, but I dont know how uses it day to day over prodos.

As far as the emulator you show its the chinese knockoff of the floppy emu. My advice, get the real deal. If you get the floppy emu, you need to cut one wire on the ribbon for use with the soft sp card. Get the soft sp card. From KbooHH (they make the card) in china or from the american reseller.


Feel free to ask questions, I love this stuff.

 

[cj7hawk]

So many knockoffs. it's a bit late now - I ordered it a week ago. I can only hope it's not a turd when it arrives.

Can the card be a VGA *and* z80 *and* usb-mouse all at the same time?

VGA and Mouse at the same time would do what I want

 

[cj7hawk]

Since you're good for some more questions - how does the Apple ii mouse work? Is it some hardware at a specific location with some counters and registers? Or is it something like a memory location with drivers or a system call of some kind that can get hooked?

 

[VERAULT]

So many knockoffs. it's a bit late now - I ordered it a week ago. I can only hope it's not a turd when it arrives.

Not to be a doom sayer but I have very low hopes. For the price you paid you could have had the real deal which receives regular updates.

Can the card be a VGA *and* z80 *and* usb-mouse all at the same time?

VGA and Mouse at the same time would do what I want

NO! One firmware at a time.

The Apple II mouse is a quadrature mouse so it uses quadrature encoding. Do I know what that means? NO!

How did early computers handle mice?

Early computer mice worked by sending a series of pulses; the more rapid the movement, the higher the frequency. How was this handled at the computer end? At one level, it sounds easy: just run a l...

retrocomputing.stackexchange.com

 

[cj7hawk]

Not to be a doom sayer but I have very low hopes. For the price you paid you could have had the real deal which receives regular updates.

I wish they weren't so hard to find. And postage can make the most reasonably priced US item unaffordable. But then it's my first time. I'll ask more questions about that if it doesn't work when it arrives or I can't get it to do at least the basics of what I need.

NO! One firmware at a time.

There goes that plan.

The Apple II mouse is a quadrature mouse so it uses quadrature encoding. Do I know what that means? NO!

How did early computers handle mice?

Early computer mice worked by sending a series of pulses; the more rapid the movement, the higher the frequency. How was this handled at the computer end? At one level, it sounds easy: just run a l...

retrocomputing.stackexchange.com

That's cool, I know exactly what they mean by that. Actually they aren't quadrature mice either. That's a recently constructed term that defines one possible way to decode their signals. They have the same encoding as trackballs which also existed at the time, and before that from paddles which existed. They were simple opto-coupled interrupter disks, which caused out of phase signals, so technically, they are just phase-separated inputs, or direction and clock.

The idea of quadrature comes from the idea that you can read the two signals as two data signals and figure out from the changing binary value of the two bits where the wheel is and which direction it's moving.

Which is how I also did it back in the day, with a z80, but mostly people just pushed them into a counter with one input going to the clock and the other input going to the direction, and they let it work like that - though that does make it possible to lose sync at times, or get multiple syncs, which you don't get with quadrature decoding.

Quadrature just means four states - for a mouse axis they are

00
01
11
10

In that order, then it repeats. You just need to make sure you read the mouse at a rate sufficient to not miss any transitions, or use a logic circuit that multiples the clock and provides direction without using one of the lines -

But what I am curious about is how the mouse signals are presented to the OS so that regardless of supplier or solution, the OS recognizes all mouses equally.

On the PC they had drivers, so it was via an API, which IIRC was accessed via Int15

On the Spectrums and Amstrads they had different schemes involving counters ( 8 bit on the Spectrum, four bit on the Amstrads ).

I haven't seen many implementations beyond this.

 

[VERAULT]

I wish they weren't so hard to find. And postage can make the most reasonably priced US item unaffordable. But then it's my first time. I'll ask more questions about that if it doesn't work when it arrives or I can't get it to do at least the basics of what I need.



There goes that plan.



That's cool, I know exactly what they mean by that. Actually they aren't quadrature mice either. That's a recently constructed term that defines one possible way to decode their signals. They have the same encoding as trackballs which also existed at the time, and before that from paddles which existed. They were simple opto-coupled interrupter disks, which caused out of phase signals, so technically, they are just phase-separated inputs, or direction and clock.

The idea of quadrature comes from the idea that you can read the two signals as two data signals and figure out from the changing binary value of the two bits where the wheel is and which direction it's moving.

Which is how I also did it back in the day, with a z80, but mostly people just pushed them into a counter with one input going to the clock and the other input going to the direction, and they let it work like that - though that does make it possible to lose sync at times, or get multiple syncs, which you don't get with quadrature decoding.

Quadrature just means four states - for a mouse axis they are

00
01
11
10

In that order, then it repeats. You just need to make sure you read the mouse at a rate sufficient to not miss any transitions, or use a logic circuit that multiples the clock and provides direction without using one of the lines -

But what I am curious about is how the mouse signals are presented to the OS so that regardless of supplier or solution, the OS recognizes all mouses equally.

On the PC they had drivers, so it was via an API, which IIRC was accessed via Int15

On the Spectrums and Amstrads they had different schemes involving counters ( 8 bit on the Spectrum, four bit on the Amstrads ).

I haven't seen many implementations beyond this.

Hows this. If your open to it. Why dont I just send you two blank pcbs and you can build them yourself. I use Lattice 22v10B's for the Gal and you need a raspberry pi pico (I use the ones that come with the headers and install female pin headers so everything is removeable for troubleshooting.

You can have the boards just pay the actual shipping. I can get a quote for you. I make no promises for the price with the world and the USA the way they are at the moment. But I think it would still be better than ebay global shipping.

 

[VERAULT]

So what do you think?

 

[cj7hawk]

So what do you think?

Thank you - that would be very much appreciated - I am good with the GALs - I have a lot of them and use them regularly.

I thought I responded yesterday, but when I came back, noticed I never clicked post...

Speaking of PCBs, do you have a Joystick Adapter for your wife's Spectrum yet?

 

[VERAULT]

Thank you - that would be very much appreciated - I am good with the GALs - I have a lot of them and use them regularly.

I thought I responded yesterday, but when I came back, noticed I never clicked post...

Speaking of PCBs, do you have a Joystick Adapter for your wife's Spectrum yet?

Kind of? I bought the divmmc future SD card device. It has one built in joystick port (I think its kempston). It works and I like it but my wife is a purist. She used the keyboard to play the games when she was little so a joystick is blasphemy to her.

I bought this 128KB ram upgrade for the 48K spectrum (which requires a couple of mods to work) https://www.tindie.com/products/goloskokovic/128k-ram-upgrade-for-zx-spectrum-48k/
goloskokovic is great and answered all my questions. He even sold one to me with a cardedge on it so I can use my divmmc future with it.

There was an additional music addon board for the 48K spectrum to make it the same as the 128K spectrum (ay music something or other I think) But I didnt get it and now I cant find it.


I also bought the zxspectrum diagnostic cartridge when I was having a nightmare of a time trying to fix the first one.. but even with the instructions I cant make heads or tails of it. Its very obtuse in the way it was written. Some people just cant write well.

send me a PM to sort the mailing details.






edit: I found this on github I think its the same sound device. Id rather buy one already made as I have enough projects to build. https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/AY_3_8910_sound_card_for_ZX_Spectrum_48K_d6dd88bf.html