Apple ][ Plus Monitor Advice

[ignis-fatuus]

Hello World. New to the forum and would greatly appreciate some advice. I recently picked up an rather dusty but fully functioning Apple ][ Plus for rather cheap off FB Marketplace ($80). It came with 48k of ram (extended to 64k w/ language card), a disk driver, one Disk II floppy drive, a monochrome Monitor III, and monitor stand. I would prefer to use a color monitor, however, as I'd like to revisit some older games from my youth. Can anyone recommend computer-appropriate color monitor with hi-res functionality and a composite input?

 

[ross.dykes]

So this is what I use with my IIc:

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We're glad to announce two new video items in the ReActiveMicro Store:The ReActiveMicro 12-inch LCD Display, and ReActiveMicro Mini AV2HDMI Video AdapterComposite video retro computer users now have t

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It's not a vintage CRT obviously, but it does composite color about as well as anything I've seen recently. Remember that the Apple II is primarily a monochrome system and color is a bit of an afterthought, so the best experience is with an old mono composite CRT. =)

 

[Eudimorphodon]

Remember that the Apple II is primarily a monochrome system and color is a bit of an afterthought, so the best experience is with an old mono composite CRT. =)

I’d actually say that if the goal is *games* then your best bet is a composite color CRT; the Apple II’s color system results in a mess of monochrome lines for games. Now if you’re planning to do “productivity” work on a II that’s a totally different story; the “color killer” circuit in those machines doesn’t work that well so you often end up with color fringing in text mode even though *that* is supposed to be monochrome.

Honestly I’d say any CRT television with a composite input you can scrape up will do you fine. If you want something matching Apple’s Color Monitor IIe is a nice unit and comes with a switch to force black and white mode which makes it one of the rare color composite monitors that can do 80 column text semi-acceptably. (Not a thing you need to worry about unless you have an 80 column card, of course.) Another vintage choice would be the Commodore 1701/1702. But again, nearly any 90’s TV will do about as well.

 

[ross.dykes]

Yeah that's probably a good point about the color killer functionality. the Reactive Micro LCD does as good a job as I've seen with composite color on an LCD, and the only reason I got it is that my 4-yr old likes playing some educational games on the Apple II that need color. My personal preference is the 9" green CRT with the tilt stand, but that's likely because I grew up with that and not because it was "optimal."

 

[Eudimorphodon]

and the only reason I got it is that my 4-yr old likes playing some educational games on the Apple II that need color

My kids totally didn’t get the appeal of monochrome either for their Odell Lake or Oregon Trail needs. Thus the compromise favorite monitor for my II+ (clone.., sort of, long story) is a 10” Panasonic metal-cased security/studio monitor I nabbed at a garage sale years ago. I like it because it looks passably close to that little 9” security monitor you often see paired with the original Apple II but it’s bright and colorful for games. (It looks a lot nicer in person than this photo.)

I will say monitor is utter hopeless in 80 columns on the IIc or a CGA card, its tube has a dot pitch measured in feet. But it’s fine for 40 columns.

 

[ignis-fatuus]

Thanks for the replies. I am definitely on the search for a AppleColor Monitor--maybe an A2M2056? I am likewise on the lookout for an Apple IIe (Enhanced or otherwise) as it may be a better option for revisiting games. In the meantime, I am thinking about using the current ][+ teach myself 6502 Assembly. I've seen a few eprom programming cards out there which would be fun to play with but they seem to be rather pricey when they do pop up.

 

[Great Hierophant]

I would avoid the Apple ColorMonitor IIe and IIc, a.k.a. AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe and IIc, they have a peculiarly ugly way of decoding composite color, which gives every area of solid color a very "stripey" look. Text is very sharp on them, but if you want more solid color you can definitely do better and a green or amber monochrome screen is much easier on the eyes than the white text put out by Apple's displays.

If you wish to use the Apple Color Monitor 100 and can afford to buy one, you will need a special card because that monitor only receives digital TTL RGBI input.

 

[VERAULT]

First off the monitor III is by my count the most robust and sturdy composite monochrome monitor Apple has made. They rarely need repair. I have worked on many and NONE have needed a recap. The only downfall is slow phosphor.

My advice would be to buy a VGA card for it like this one: https://a2heaven.com/webshop/index.php?rt=product/product&product_id=142
and just use a $5.00 4:3 thrift store LCD monitor. Honestly I use my Apple II's in monochrome 90% of the time. It came out in 1977 and unless you owned a color TV with RF adapter (SUP R' MOD) you used it in monochrome.

I would avoid the Apple ColorMonitor IIe and IIc, a.k.a. AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe and IIc, they have a peculiarly ugly way of decoding composite color, which gives every area of solid color a very "stripey" look. Text is very sharp on them, but if you want more solid color you can definitely do better and a green or amber monochrome screen is much easier on the eyes than the white text put out by Apple's displays.

If you wish to use the Apple Color Monitor 100 and can afford to buy one, you will need a special card because that monitor only receives digital TTL RGBI input.

I second not getting Apple Color composite monitors also but for very different reasons. I have 6 of them that dont work(AppleColor IIe, Apple color IIc, and the vanilla applecolor composite monitor), all almost identical in design.. Why do I own 6 that dont work? Because apple is a shit company and did not release any schematics to the public for these monitors. So repair is a nightmare on them. Avoid them. And if what I said offends anyone? Sorry, but its true.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

I would avoid the Apple ColorMonitor IIe and IIc, a.k.a. AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe and IIc, they have a peculiarly ugly way of decoding composite color, which gives every area of solid color a very "stripey" look.

I never noticed them looking particularly “off” when connected to an Apple II, but they are definitely peculiar. I had one in the 1990’s I picked up at a garage sale (with no Apple II) to go with it which I used as a general purpose video monitor/TV (via a VCR) and I’d describe it as… I dunno, “washed out”? They did something to those things in their really desperate attempts to make them semi-usable in the IIe’s Double High-Res mode to reduce fringing and it had side effects.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

I second not getting Apple Color composite monitors also but for very different reasons. I have 6 of them that dont work(AppleColor IIe, Apple color IIc, and the vanilla applecolor composite monitor), all almost identical in design.

FWIW, the last few Apple Color Composite monitors I've run into in the flesh (the last one was probably around 13 years ago now) still technically "worked" but they were universally in really sad shape. Discolored tubes, dim displays, etc. Given how these things were almost exclusively purchased by schools it's probably not at all surprising that they don't tend to be very well preserved.

(And no doubt because they were widely available as surplus they were kicking around for a long time as utility monitors for homebrew video production nerds; go to a sci-fi convention or something in the late 90's-early-2000's and you might see a guy pushing a cart with several of them stacked precariously on top of other random AV equipment. And I'm sure all that banging around didn't do them any good.)

Again, my recommendation if you want it to feel "oldschool" without investing much money in a potentially very flaky antique (and the use case is gaming, not "real work") would be a 90's 13" TV set with a composite input. Like anything CRT they are getting pretty thin on the ground, but you do still occasionally find a working one for cheap and it'll be *fine* for a 40 column machine like a ][plus.

(Unfortunately the main problem with this recommendation is you do pretty much have to luck out and find one at an old folk's garage sale or on a street corner for it to be cheap anymore, if someone's selling one on Craigslist or whatever the word has gotten out that these are desirable to GAMERs and they'll want a hundred bucks for it. I need to remember these things when I elect to *not* pick up the TV a neighbor leaves out on the curb because, well, that old junk should be worthless, something that seems to happen about once or twice a year.)

The VGA card suggestion isn't bad if you do want to use an LCD. The weird nonstandard NTSC video signal from Apple II's is... very hit or miss trying to display on the composite inputs of LCD TVs or via composite converters. A premium-brand TV with a good scaler can make it look great, but your luck will very much vary. My living room TV looks nice with the II+ attached to it for games, but because the "color killer" circuitry Apple used to try to suppress the colorburst for text mode is bass-ackwards and doesn't really completely get rid of it it's a coin toss whether text will be an awful mess. And on the flip side it's not unusual for LCD TVs to not interpret Apple II video as being in color in all. Only way to know is to try it.

 

[VERAULT]

Hello World.

Indeed! update your avatar so we know where in the world you are located!!!

 

[grimm]

I use a RetroTink 2X-Pro and an old 4:3 LCD monitor. Works with the composite artifact color and the 80 column text, although scaling can cause some text to break up. I just choose the mode on the RetroTink that looks the best.

 

[skate323k137]

Right now, my II Plus is on a monochrome display, but only because my work space that it is in would fold in half under the weight of a trinitron, and the work I'm doing with it doesn't require color at the moment.

For flat panels or especially later era PC CRT monitors I use an XRGB2+. For Apple II's, it's perfectly fine in 80 column and color modes, but 40 column grayscale on boot has a flicker and curl to it, which is very annoying. I own the scaler for many other reasons but found this interesting anyway.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

Right now, my II Plus is on a monochrome display, but only because my work space that it is in would fold in half under the weight of a trinitron, and the work I'm doing with it doesn't require color at the moment.

Heh. For laughs I took a look at the local Craigslist and found that you can totally easily still get a CRT TV for free... if it's a gigantic 32" one that someone's desperate to get hauled off without breaking their own back. But if you want a 13" one you get to pay Gamer Gear prices.

(I'm sure that most 13" TVs just get thrown out because, you know, they're light enough for mere mortals to lug to the trash can without ending up in the hospital and their owners aren't in the know about the fabulous wealth they can extract.)

 

[skate323k137]

Heh. For laughs I took a look at the local Craigslist and found that you can totally easily still get a CRT TV for free... if it's a gigantic 32" one that someone's desperate to get hauled off without breaking their own back. But if you want a 13" one you get to pay Gamer Gear prices.

(I'm sure that most 13" TVs just get thrown out because, you know, they're light enough for mere mortals to lug to the trash can without ending up in the hospital and their owners aren't in the know about the fabulous wealth they can extract.)

Sad but true.

I have a free 40" Sony Trinitron in my basement; I quite literally called the local movers to have them take it down the stairs from my ground floor. That is one heavy tube, and I've done 27" monitor CRT swaps on arcade machines essentially solo.

Gamer pricing has long since killed the professional video monitor market. When my last PVM or two kick the bucket, I highly doubt I'll own another one. I am certain that for the dozen or more Sony PVM's that have passed through my hands, less money was exchanged in total than the current eBay price of a single PVM 20M4U. It's insanity.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

Those last generation 35"+ tube TVs are just crazy; apparently a Sony KV-40XBR700 officially tips the scales at 304 pounds. Not a lot of folks are capable of lugging the equivalent of forty gallons of milk down the stairs so, yeah, calling the movers sounds like a good plan. Heck, even a 32" weighs about as much as your average (non-American) human adult, so there's a lot of potential for bad things to happen trying to muscle one of those out of the house by yourself.

(Fun badly-estimated fact; if we ballpark the volume of the CRT of a 40" TV to being around two cubic feet the fact that it's full of vacuum instead of air should make the TV about a sixth of a pound lighter than it'd be otherwise. Makes all the difference!)

 

[oldpcguy]

Hello World. New to the forum and would greatly appreciate some advice. I recently picked up an rather dusty but fully functioning Apple ][ Plus for rather cheap off FB Marketplace ($80). It came with 48k of ram (extended to 64k w/ language card), a disk driver, one Disk II floppy drive, a monochrome Monitor III, and monitor stand. I would prefer to use a color monitor, however, as I'd like to revisit some older games from my youth. Can anyone recommend computer-appropriate color monitor with hi-res functionality and a composite input?

If the monitor stand looks like this be aware it's probably worth more than the rest of the setup.

 

[ignis-fatuus]

If the monitor stand looks like this be aware it's probably worth more than the rest of the setup.

View attachment 1247730

Sorry for the late reply--been traveling a lot for work these days. Here's a pic of the Apple ][+ and my recently acquired //e. I didn't realize that the monitor stand was so sought after. I really like how it fits the formfactor of the Apple Monitor ///.

*update. I think I got lucky (sort of) as I picked up an AppleColor Monitor 100 (A9M0308) for next to nothing with the 80 col/RGB card. It's gonna need a bit of work as the dim-light-tester kicks in hard on power-on, but I'm hopeful that it's just a failed cap and not something more difficult to replace (flyback, etc.). Will likely start a new thread on its resurrection and journey towards Apple II RGB-goodness.