RetroHacker_
Veteran Member
So, what, you joined *another* forum just to harass this guy? Really?
Just leave him alone, this childish stuff (on both sides) isn't good for the hobby. This is supposed to be fun.
-Ian
- VCF East - April 12 - 14, Infoage Museum, Wall NJ
- VCF South West - June 14 - 16, Davidson-Gundy Alumni Center at University of Texas at Dallas
- VCF West - Aug 2 - 3, Computer History Museum, Mountain View, CA
- VCF Midwest - Sept 7 - 8 2024, Schaumburg, IL
- VCF SoCal - Mid February 2025, Location TBD, Sothern CA
-
Please review our updated Terms and Rules here
AppleIIfan's M100 & DVI: only $600
- Thread starter MikeS
- Start date
- Status
So, what, you joined *another* forum just to harass this guy? Really?
Just leave him alone, this childish stuff (on both sides) isn't good for the hobby. This is supposed to be fun.
-Ian
BGoins12
Experienced Member
Yup! I remember when that happened. I haven't signed on there in 6 years... I don't even remember my username or email address I used. :lol:
MikeS
Veteran Member
That's another thing I don't get; like you, when someone first mentioned on this forum who AppleIIfan is, the first three replies jumped all over the poster for being childish, the past is irrelevant, etc. and even asked the mods to remove the post in question.
I think most of us inherently trust fellow members of this community much more than 'outsiders' on eBay and elsewhere, so if I'm about to buy something from a fellow hobbyist (who is nevertheless a total stranger) I appreciate it if someone lets me know before I send off my hard-earned money that this person has seriously taken advantage of and grossly abused that trust in the past.
Knowing that he's ripped off numerous people, been convicted of fraud, and probably even still has some of the equipment he'd stolen from people in the past lets me make an informed choice whether to take extra precautions or whether to deal with this person at all.
You and a few others apparently feel that's wrong, that a warning is inappropriate and is just unfairly 'harassing' this poor 'victim', and you'll keep it to yourself and let the buyers (your fellow community members) find out the hard way if there is indeed a problem.
I must say it has been interesting to see the various different perspectives and ethical values that have surfaced in this saga...
Last edited:
DOS lives on!!
Veteran Member
I believe that an initial warning is right to give. I don't believe in harassing a user in every thread that user starts.
+1 to all this being interesting to watch, Mike.
+1 to all this being interesting to watch, Mike.
CommodoreUser
Member
I agree,
so basically all you people that are saying that I am harassing A2F and following him is wrong. I don't give a monkey's tbh. If you look at his history he has done more damage to a lot of people than I think you realize.
If it had happened 6 years ago and that was it then I say forgive but everything he posted on here and AmiBay was just pure lies and contradicting himself. To me that say s that he is still the same person as 6 years ago. I am not even going to go onto the other things other than scams.
I know more about him than I have posted here and have already received numerous threatening messages from him. Even over at Lemon he is now stating he is a Commodore 64 fan and I know that ain't true for a fact.
I will keep following this guy for ONE reason and ONE reason only: He does not scam people again like he did.
As long as I see his inconsistencies, lies and total b/s posting I will continue.
I do care about the vintage community and am myself an avid vintage computer junkie and care about what happens in the community.
You can see me for whatever you want really, I know that everything I have posted is based on 100% facts and the people that want to see him as a victim, well that is your choice of course but my goal is just to make sure people are aware of him.
@DOS Lives on!!: As long as his threads contain inconsistencies I will call him out on them.
so basically all you people that are saying that I am harassing A2F and following him is wrong. I don't give a monkey's tbh. If you look at his history he has done more damage to a lot of people than I think you realize.
If it had happened 6 years ago and that was it then I say forgive but everything he posted on here and AmiBay was just pure lies and contradicting himself. To me that say s that he is still the same person as 6 years ago. I am not even going to go onto the other things other than scams.
I know more about him than I have posted here and have already received numerous threatening messages from him. Even over at Lemon he is now stating he is a Commodore 64 fan and I know that ain't true for a fact.
I will keep following this guy for ONE reason and ONE reason only: He does not scam people again like he did.
As long as I see his inconsistencies, lies and total b/s posting I will continue.
I do care about the vintage community and am myself an avid vintage computer junkie and care about what happens in the community.
You can see me for whatever you want really, I know that everything I have posted is based on 100% facts and the people that want to see him as a victim, well that is your choice of course but my goal is just to make sure people are aware of him.
@DOS Lives on!!: As long as his threads contain inconsistencies I will call him out on them.
MikeS
Veteran Member
We are talking about your "initial warning", whether it's harassment to warn people on yet another forum who may be totally unaware of who he is and the fact that he's been banned from various other forums (people rarely get banned for no reason, especially from a number of different forums).
And I'd like to know once and for all what you call "harassment"? Was this thread "harassment"? Should I not have mentioned that although he'd insisted that he was just a hobbyist and only grabbed that R-S pile so he could finally have an M100, it was now on eBay for $600, now it's gone, now it's up again for .99, now it's gone again, blah blah.
Should I apologize to poor hard-done-by Steve?
Last edited:
Terry Yager
Veteran Member
If I may play the apologist...
If I may play the apologist...
...even if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth:
For the record, I did some checking locally, and while I know that others here don't have access to any of the backchannel resources I use, I did hear of not from a number of people who claim to know him personally, not only in Clare county but in adjacent Isabella and Gladwin counties, as well as other more distant points in MI. I didn't speak to any of these alleged personal acquaintances myself. The closest I could come was two different well known sources, one highly trusted and one iffy, (my cousin and my former nephew-in-law), who know someone who knows him but even their reports I still consider hearsay. The worst I heard from these second-or-greater-hand sources (other than frequent mention of information already discussed elsewhere in these forums), is that he is considered something of an asshole by those who know him. If assholery were a crime however, many of us here (especially myself) would be guilty as well. Also for the record, my decision to refuse his offer to take possession of my vintage gear had nothing to do with any hearsay info here, on the net or in RL, but is based solely on his own words and behavior in these forums alone. Bottom line, he just doesn't pass the smell test for me. Now can we please quit flogging this hoss? It's getting pretty old...
Just my $.02
--T
If I may play the apologist...
...even if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth:
For the record, I did some checking locally, and while I know that others here don't have access to any of the backchannel resources I use, I did hear of not from a number of people who claim to know him personally, not only in Clare county but in adjacent Isabella and Gladwin counties, as well as other more distant points in MI. I didn't speak to any of these alleged personal acquaintances myself. The closest I could come was two different well known sources, one highly trusted and one iffy, (my cousin and my former nephew-in-law), who know someone who knows him but even their reports I still consider hearsay. The worst I heard from these second-or-greater-hand sources (other than frequent mention of information already discussed elsewhere in these forums), is that he is considered something of an asshole by those who know him. If assholery were a crime however, many of us here (especially myself) would be guilty as well. Also for the record, my decision to refuse his offer to take possession of my vintage gear had nothing to do with any hearsay info here, on the net or in RL, but is based solely on his own words and behavior in these forums alone. Bottom line, he just doesn't pass the smell test for me. Now can we please quit flogging this hoss? It's getting pretty old...
Just my $.02
--T
Last edited:
Lorne
Veteran Member
I'm all for forgive and forget if someone did something wrong in the past, has since made amends, and has changed significantly since that time.
That isn't the case here though.
I keep hearing this referred to as "scamming".
It's not scamming, it's theft, plain and simple, and theft is a crime.
He is a crook.
If he had paid everyone back that he had stolen from, and apologized to them, then maybe (maybe) he could be given a chance.
He admitted he was a "scammer" (thief/crook), and made no mention of ever making restitution to his victims.
Some of you don't mind dealing with a thief as long as you get a share of the bounty.
Me? I don't want to deal with someone like that, and don't even want to see someone like that on a forum I frequent.
His being a member of this forum taints us all.
If guys like him are allowed to stay on the forum, why don't we send out an invitation to all the correctional facilities, jails and prisons, and ask if anyone else would like to join.
I'm with you Mike - I'm keeping a little list of names of people I don't want to associate with on this forum.
The one bad apple has already tainted a few others.
It's too bad, too - it wasn't like this before the crook got his membership.
That isn't the case here though.
I keep hearing this referred to as "scamming".
It's not scamming, it's theft, plain and simple, and theft is a crime.
He is a crook.
If he had paid everyone back that he had stolen from, and apologized to them, then maybe (maybe) he could be given a chance.
He admitted he was a "scammer" (thief/crook), and made no mention of ever making restitution to his victims.
Some of you don't mind dealing with a thief as long as you get a share of the bounty.
Me? I don't want to deal with someone like that, and don't even want to see someone like that on a forum I frequent.
His being a member of this forum taints us all.
If guys like him are allowed to stay on the forum, why don't we send out an invitation to all the correctional facilities, jails and prisons, and ask if anyone else would like to join.
I'm with you Mike - I'm keeping a little list of names of people I don't want to associate with on this forum.
The one bad apple has already tainted a few others.
It's too bad, too - it wasn't like this before the crook got his membership.
DOS lives on!!
Veteran Member
I agree, it was more peaceful on here before this happened.
The reason I said "harassing in multiple threads" is because in some threads he started or was related to that user turned into this stuff. I believe that the general statements of bringing up stuff like this should be in its own thread, and the problems of items being on and pulled from Ebay should be in the related item's thread. Threads who pertain to items for sale keep turning into this.
Which to a degree is harassing and/or stalking.CommodoreUser said:
The reason I said "harassing in multiple threads" is because in some threads he started or was related to that user turned into this stuff. I believe that the general statements of bringing up stuff like this should be in its own thread, and the problems of items being on and pulled from Ebay should be in the related item's thread. Threads who pertain to items for sale keep turning into this.
I too thought he was a fellow enthusiast, and he has a few items in his collection, which to me qualifies as an enthusiast. I do not know the story behing the Radishack haul and don't really want to hear it.MikeS said:
That is solely your decision.
Maverick1978
Veteran Member
FWIW, by constantly arguing, defending, and updating threads where he's posted here in the past... we're giving him the power to form divisions in this community even though he's no longer a part of it.
I think it was a good thing to have people point out his past, and to point out that his past seemed to be very much a part of his present as evidenced by his activities on other forums.
I see nothing wrong with following him around the net's forums to ensure that others are aware of his past to allow them to make their own informed decisions, as we did once the favor had been done here (and it was a favor)
I caution against looking down upon anyone here that purchased from him, as we do not know if those others had followed some of the threads here to have been informed about his character prior to purchase.
I think that taking every single thread he started and chasing him with his past was a bit much - BUT - I can see the side of those doing it because we no longer have a "hall of shame" sticky here to post in, nor would it have been considered correct to post a "Warning Against AppleIIFan / Steven Landon" thread, considering that Erik had made the decision to allow him here so long as he was sincere in his statement that he had changed. Remember: VCF is Erik's house, not ours, and ultimately, Erik made the decision to allow him here and later to ban him when it became apparent that Steve hadn't changed his ways.
I think we all need to let this rest in this forum now so that it can be forgotten about. This is a pretty good group of people, and that's one of the main reasons that this is my main online haunt now... I'd hate to see this place become so divisive that it brings that feeling of community down.
I think it was a good thing to have people point out his past, and to point out that his past seemed to be very much a part of his present as evidenced by his activities on other forums.
I see nothing wrong with following him around the net's forums to ensure that others are aware of his past to allow them to make their own informed decisions, as we did once the favor had been done here (and it was a favor)
I caution against looking down upon anyone here that purchased from him, as we do not know if those others had followed some of the threads here to have been informed about his character prior to purchase.
I think that taking every single thread he started and chasing him with his past was a bit much - BUT - I can see the side of those doing it because we no longer have a "hall of shame" sticky here to post in, nor would it have been considered correct to post a "Warning Against AppleIIFan / Steven Landon" thread, considering that Erik had made the decision to allow him here so long as he was sincere in his statement that he had changed. Remember: VCF is Erik's house, not ours, and ultimately, Erik made the decision to allow him here and later to ban him when it became apparent that Steve hadn't changed his ways.
I think we all need to let this rest in this forum now so that it can be forgotten about. This is a pretty good group of people, and that's one of the main reasons that this is my main online haunt now... I'd hate to see this place become so divisive that it brings that feeling of community down.
..I keep getting pulled back to this thread too ::sigh:: But there are a few things left out of the show here. Again, I don't have any side in this. I haven't bought anything from him, talked to him about a purchase a few months ago and the information while being his current friend or girlfriends checked out. While odd and a potential flag I don't have reason to think I would have been scammed, also on other forums and here his recent purchases seem to be going fine. Back on applefritter nobody here has pointed out the apology letter after his sentence (he wasn't able to reply obviously due to getting locked up. His girlfriend or ex at the time also seems to have tried to straighten things out if she could. Not really any followup on those threads though. Another question/comment though is his charge as far as I've seen wasn't at all related to computers, selling, etc. Not a nice charge but outside of people claiming to contact the local police regarding mail fraud I don't know that anything ever happened with that nor that he was convicted of any related charges (if someone knows that for sure it would be interesting at least to know whether anything happened last time or not).
Like I said, I know I look like I come off as a potential supporter which I'm not, but outside of a heads up comment or thread I think this is a bit out of control on the blame game. I feel for ya if you were ripped off, I totally get that and yes I'm a one strike you're out person myself. But I still feel like it should be pointed out that his recent activity isn't matching up with the problems years ago which seemed more like trades or send me this system first then I'll do X.
If someone has first hand experience though in transactions that's useful to post and know. If you do find a thread from someone current that got ripped off let folks know, that's totally fair and appreciated with the heads up.
edit: I don't have any problems with any members here btw, lol just saw that as a potential topic. I think we all know each other and as said before appreciate each other and the community as a whole. Honestly I would be happy if this was just a post of caution during one of his original sales threads, but I think folks were beating a bit too far around the bush that I know I missed the point originally and was just trying to figure out what all the business/reseller comments were about. If it was more to the point of "hey folks, just a heads up this person was involved in a lot of scams and bla over here, here's a reference" I would have understood the original intent. That's my own personal missing of the ball though. I appreciate the heads up, but I'd rather see productive forum chatter.
Like I said, I know I look like I come off as a potential supporter which I'm not, but outside of a heads up comment or thread I think this is a bit out of control on the blame game. I feel for ya if you were ripped off, I totally get that and yes I'm a one strike you're out person myself. But I still feel like it should be pointed out that his recent activity isn't matching up with the problems years ago which seemed more like trades or send me this system first then I'll do X.
If someone has first hand experience though in transactions that's useful to post and know. If you do find a thread from someone current that got ripped off let folks know, that's totally fair and appreciated with the heads up.
edit: I don't have any problems with any members here btw, lol just saw that as a potential topic. I think we all know each other and as said before appreciate each other and the community as a whole. Honestly I would be happy if this was just a post of caution during one of his original sales threads, but I think folks were beating a bit too far around the bush that I know I missed the point originally and was just trying to figure out what all the business/reseller comments were about. If it was more to the point of "hey folks, just a heads up this person was involved in a lot of scams and bla over here, here's a reference" I would have understood the original intent. That's my own personal missing of the ball though. I appreciate the heads up, but I'd rather see productive forum chatter.
Lorne
Veteran Member
You were "being his current friend or gilfriends" ? You were more than one?
John: there's nothing like putting an apostrophe in the right place, or missing one either.
An apology letter is one thing, making restitution is another.
And the term scamming lessens the impact. It was theft.
He may not have been charged with theft - it was something entirely different that he was convicted of, but he probably should have been charged with theft.
He admitted he'd "scammed" people = stealing from people.
Apologize all you want, but make sure you set things as straight as they can be (ie: pay the victims back for their losses).
I don't need first hand experience with being ripped off by the guy - I don't want that first hand experience either.
There are enough people out there who have been ripped off, that it isn't just one guy with a complaint, it's a ton of people.
That should tell you it's real, and that's good enough for me.
He's been banned, and hopefully it stays that way.
Now, maybe we can get back to normal (as normal as it was before, at least).
Like Barythrin, I am neither for or against this guy. My problems with him have nothing to do with his past, they are simply:
1. The obvious discrepancy between him professing to be an avid collector, yet his activity here was that of a person who is making a living from re-selling equipment (as evidenced by his volume of sales and pricing). Nothing wrong with being a reseller, nothing wrong with being both a reseller and a collector just make it clear which you are.
2. His inability to own his past and move beyond it and the child like response he made to people calling him out on his shit (both present and past). If he had come out and owned his past and handle the preset with consistent dignity and did not attack everyone who even hinted at his past then I would have been able to move beyond his reputation and I think he would have been very successful here since it would have built some trust.
3. His prices were just too high for me, a personal thing to be sure but still relevant (to me at least) when I decide to buy something.
I won't waste any more effort on the guy mostly because his current activities speak of someone who has either not changed or is simply not mature enough to communicate said change, in either event he will eventually get himself banned from such forums with or without help from anyone.
Bottom line is life it way too short to worry about people like him once they have been taken care of, so I'm gonna open a beer and enjoy it while I move on with my computer collecting.
1. The obvious discrepancy between him professing to be an avid collector, yet his activity here was that of a person who is making a living from re-selling equipment (as evidenced by his volume of sales and pricing). Nothing wrong with being a reseller, nothing wrong with being both a reseller and a collector just make it clear which you are.
2. His inability to own his past and move beyond it and the child like response he made to people calling him out on his shit (both present and past). If he had come out and owned his past and handle the preset with consistent dignity and did not attack everyone who even hinted at his past then I would have been able to move beyond his reputation and I think he would have been very successful here since it would have built some trust.
3. His prices were just too high for me, a personal thing to be sure but still relevant (to me at least) when I decide to buy something.
I won't waste any more effort on the guy mostly because his current activities speak of someone who has either not changed or is simply not mature enough to communicate said change, in either event he will eventually get himself banned from such forums with or without help from anyone.
Bottom line is life it way too short to worry about people like him once they have been taken care of, so I'm gonna open a beer and enjoy it while I move on with my computer collecting.
MikeS
Veteran Member
A shame that we can't see any posts from anyone who actually did have stuff returned back then...
But folks seem to keep missing the point: it's never been about whether he's still ripping people off as he did then by taking money or trades and not shipping stuff; everybody seems quite happy in that department.
What I think it has been about is honesty and integrity, but as Lorne mentions and Ian so nicely illustrates with his "I don't know and I don't want to know", as long as the price is right some folks don't care whom they're dealing with, if he is in fact who and what he says he is, or especially where he got the stuff he's selling and how he got it. Different folks, different strokes.
But folks seem to keep missing the point: it's never been about whether he's still ripping people off as he did then by taking money or trades and not shipping stuff; everybody seems quite happy in that department.
What I think it has been about is honesty and integrity, but as Lorne mentions and Ian so nicely illustrates with his "I don't know and I don't want to know", as long as the price is right some folks don't care whom they're dealing with, if he is in fact who and what he says he is, or especially where he got the stuff he's selling and how he got it. Different folks, different strokes.
Lorne
Veteran Member
Good idea - me too !
Keep him off here, and let's get back to our semblance of normal.
(ie: anyone know where I can order a CR2032 battery from?) LOL
DOS lives on!!
Veteran Member
Bring everything back to normal with THAT easy of a question.:D
You got a Radioshack near ya?
CommodoreUser
Member
I agree Mike and let's not forget one thing here that I happen to find very important. With his background, I mean what he was charged and convicted of, wouldn't you want to know this before you met up with him in person for a trade or something?
We always (or at least I do) warn our children about people on the internet not being who they think they are and in this case I think that Steve's history says enough about who he is.
That information is public for a reason!!!
Anyway I do agree that we should get on with our lives.
@Lorne...that battery is available at cvs, walgreens, radioshack and walmart
We always (or at least I do) warn our children about people on the internet not being who they think they are and in this case I think that Steve's history says enough about who he is.
That information is public for a reason!!!
Anyway I do agree that we should get on with our lives.
@Lorne...that battery is available at cvs, walgreens, radioshack and walmart
Lorne
Veteran Member
Ian: There's no more Monday Night Football, but C'mon Man, get with the game - read the Bad Seller On Ebay thread.
DOS lives on!!
Veteran Member
I've read that thread many times. Thankfully Ebay sellers haven't ripped me off (yet).
On the other hand, I just made some really good sourdough bread.
On the other hand, I just made some really good sourdough bread.
CommodoreUser
Member
Now I do like sourdough bread, i make Garlic bread a lot. Can't keep my hands off it when I bake it
- Status