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BeOS

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Darshevo

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
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Location
Eastern Washington
Rather than hijack an existing thread I figured the best thing for me to do was to create a new one.

After some recent info I picked up regarding BeOS I have a few questions about it that I can't seem to find answered fully on Google.

On bebits website they state that BeOS doesn't run well on modern computers. They do not however give a very clear definition of what a modern computer is. I see that the Bebox type computers were 66/133 mhz risc machines.

I have some really cool compaq (i know, cool and compaq in the same sentence...) desktop computers I got at a school auction that are 933+ mhz P3's. Is that too modern? Or do I need to get back into something more pentium I oriented.

The OS is apparantly designed to run on multi processor systems. Are we talking Pentium Pro 200's or could I get an old server with a pair (or 4 :D) of xeon 500's? (once again, is a p3 500 too 'modern'?)

I see software versions for PowerPC (assumably machintosh?) and x86, altho the bebox itself was apparantly Risc. Will the Risc version (if I am correct in assuming it exists) could it be installed on an Silicon Graphics unit? (I don't own one yet... but it is high on the agenda of systems to aquire for my collection)

And finally, this is outside the scope of this category, but is the new implementation (Haiku) based off the actual BeOS Pro OS or is it a new, ground up OS based loosely on the original BeOS.

-Lance
 
Oh jeeze, this is going to tussle some cobwebs upstairs, but I'll give it a try.

Darshevo said:
On bebits website they state that BeOS doesn't run well on modern computers. They do not however give a very clear definition of what a modern computer is. I see that the Bebox type computers were 66/133 mhz risc machines.
Click to expand...
The BeBox ran the PPC version of BeOS, that's in PowerPC. And yes, I believe they were dual-processor computers.

As far as why BeOS doesn't work well on 'modern' computers, a plethora of reasons.
- it didn't work if there was too much RAM
- it didn't work on AMD processors
- there aren't drivers for modern modems, network cards, graphic cards, sound cards...

I have some really cool compaq (i know, cool and compaq in the same sentence...) desktop computers I got at a school auction that are 933+ mhz P3's. Is that too modern? Or do I need to get back into something more pentium I oriented.
Click to expand...
It should run on those computers, at least the processor shouldn't be a problem. I ran BeOS for years on an 800mhz PIII, and it worked great. Look up the max RAM and locate same-vintage components (networking, sound, graphics...) that are supported by BeOS.

The OS is apparantly designed to run on multi processor systems. Are we talking Pentium Pro 200's or could I get an old server with a pair (or 4 :D) of xeon 500's? (once again, is a p3 500 too 'modern'?)
Click to expand...
I have no idea...

I see software versions for PowerPC (assumably machintosh?) and x86, altho the bebox itself was apparantly Risc. Will the Risc version (if I am correct in assuming it exists) could it be installed on an Silicon Graphics unit? (I don't own one yet... but it is high on the agenda of systems to aquire for my collection)
Click to expand...
BeBox, a Risc system? I dunno, thought they used Motorola processors, same as Macintoshes at the time.

And finally, this is outside the scope of this category, but is the new implementation (Haiku) based off the actual BeOS Pro OS or is it a new, ground up OS based loosely on the original BeOS.
Click to expand...
Haiku is an open source BeOS-replacement project written from scratch. The purpose is to create an operating system that's a clone of the old BeOS with emphasis on compatibility with modern computers.
 
Ways to experience BeOS

Ways to experience BeOS

Pentium is minimum requirement.....I don't know if it can manage with the AMD and Cyrix 586s.

Once someone has that then, many ways still exist to feel the BeOS experience first hand:

Getting your hands on a BeOS DemoCD. Getting a copy is now challenging - one must either have a friend who is also a BeOS fanatic or be patient and bid appropriately when one comes up for auction on eBay. I obtained my copy of R4.5 DemoCD after ~5 years of daily searches on eBay and was extremely lucky as no-one else was much interested. It booted liked a charm and went from power-on to full GUI in ~25 seconds on a PIII running at 1.0 GHz with 32 Mb RAM and no hard-drive. Other well known livecds like Knoppix and lesser known like Zeta (a controversial follow-up to BeOS) had to be hard-reseted after ~5 minutes of CD-ROM activity on that particular system. (BTW - Don't bother ask - I won't sell/trade this DemoCD).

Getting your hands on BeOS R5.0 PE. PE is the demonstration version of BeOS R5.0 Pro. It is still available for download from many web sites dedicated to BeOS. The installable is Windows based and runs on Windows 95 through Windows 2000 although only when not on a NTFS partition. There is also a Linux based installable although it is more difficult to find on the web. It installs as a 512 Mb contiguous file in which resides a full BFS image and puts a BootBeOS icon on the desktop.....A pre-Win2K based system goes straight into BeOS by clicking on this icon. A Win2K based system requires a boot floppy (which is created during installation).

Getting your hands on BeOS Developper Edition (a re-packaging of PE with the addition of the BeOS Development Kit which was available separately from Be, Inc.) or BeOS MAX (also a re-packaging of PE with updated drivers and patched boot floppy images). The latest BeOS MAX can be booted as a livecd but I had a poor success rate with that approach.

Part of the kernel loads from the boot floppy and this is on that part that patching to allow booting with more than 768 Mb of RAM and/or an AMD based system is made. The IDE hard drive driver is peculiar and can be finicky - and boot floppies including updated IDE drivers are also available.

Laptops/Notebooks are the most difficult to get up to full BeOS experience because of their video.....atlhough the booting process has some smarts and will boot with a default VESA grey-scale safe mode. Boring yet allowing to install the necessary video driver - if one exists (most can be found in BeBits).

I downloaded Haiku within hours of the announcement of its release although I still have to burn it and try it on the PIII system I tested the BeOS R4.5 DemoCD.
 
If it's just a demo CD and with Be itself being defunct, what's stopping someone from hypothetically copying one of the Demo CD's? Were they protected with some sort of DRM scheme? I'm not saying to do so, I'm just mildly surprised that hasn't come up yet.
 
Vlad said:
If it's just a demo CD and with Be itself being defunct, what's stopping someone from hypothetically copying one of the Demo CD's? Were they protected with some sort of DRM scheme? I'm not saying to do so, I'm just mildly surprised that hasn't come up yet.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have a problem copying a BeOS CD for someone. But a collector-type person would probably prefer an original disc, which fortunately are still available here at Purplus:

http://www.purplus.net/search/search.php?catalog=purplus&query=Beos&x=0&y=0

Ten bucks for BeOS 5.0 Pro.

------------------------------

How I usually install BeOS (it's been a while, so pardon if I leave out a step):

Use Ranish Partition manager to create two partitions, first one for Win 98 and second one for BeOS.
Install Windows.
Install BeOS PE within Windows.
Upgrade to 5.01 and 5.03.
Install software applications, configure drivers, apply patches, etc. In general, test for hardware compatibility and get it running smoothly.
Use the included "Installer" program to copy the BeOS PE installation from within Windows to it's own dedicated partition. Amazingly, all of the patches, drivers and applications will be transfered along with the OS.
Install BeOS Bootman or other boot loader.
Should be set to go!

Of course by using one of the bootable CD distros, you can skip the Windows installation entirely.

As I recall, it's even possible to create your own BeOS distribution with only the drivers and patches that you need, installed to a bootable CD. Never actually did it though, and I believe there were some tricks to it.

Another tip: Recall the leaked Dano code that was supposed to be the next official BeOS version, only Be never finished it. Well, someone worked on it a bit and came up with the Dano-based PhOS (PhosphurOS). Although a bit glitchy, there were some applications and features that could be taken from PhOS and used within an older BeOS installation.

----------------------
In short, I would skip the old and rare 4.5 Demo CD altogether. Either use PE for testing, or jump right into 5.0 Pro or one of the other CD-based distros like Max or Developers Edition. For newer hardware, best bet is definitely Haiku.

I think you're going to have fun! :D
 
Bobthearch said:
I wouldn't have a problem copying a BeOS CD for someone. But a collector-type person would probably prefer an original disc,
Click to expand...


Oh! I knew I had to be missing something, never thought about that. :rolleyes:
 
Further information

Further information

Some further information I thought would be appreciated.

I'm not familier with how to do "quotes" in the forum and used the old fashion way (copy-paste).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad
If it's just a demo CD and with Be itself being defunct, what's stopping someone from hypothetically copying one of the Demo CD's? Were they protected with some sort of DRM scheme? I'm not saying to do so, I'm just mildly surprised that hasn't come up yet.

Be, Inc. appeared to have been quite casual about its DemoCDs and even published an article about how one could master one for purposes of distribution of a software demonstration/trial. There was still the plain english request that mass distribution of such software demonstration would require approval of Be, Inc. Even with the detailed instructions stated in the official article, burning coasters has been far more frequent than burning a bootable CD-ROM. BeOS could be said to be self-copy-protecting it-self without the need of anything special in its code.

The hypothetical question raised a good point - as the number of working examples of a given computer system (or even a software package) diminish to a small number and the original manufacturer no longer supports it - would one expect these few users not to exchange bits and pieces so their emotionally valued systems can be kept in operational state?

Anyways, Be, Inc. did not just go bankrupt and vanish leaving no formal owner of the intellectual property (and source code). Palm purchased Be, Inc. including the intellectual property in a deal which also got them a key contributor to the back-bone of BeOS. Palm later sold, being under financial constraints, this intellectual property to Access.

Palm appears to have been quite easy-going with ventures surrounding BeOS even though such ventures were at times quite controversial (e.g. Zeta) and having an ex-Be executive within its management team was likely a contributing factor here. However, within days of taking ownership of the BeOS source code, Access made its "cease-and-desist" letter to the Zeta team well publicized. At about the same time too the team behind BeOS Online and the Developers Edition vanished from existence without any announcement. The BeOSMax Edition continued as its developper described the details to Access and was granted permission to continue.

Access may have purposes here - BeOS was designed on a RISC based archictecture and had to adapt to multiple hardware through its life (Hobbit, PowerPC, and finally X86). It may be one of the rare true "hardware independent" OS even to this day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobthearch

Another tip: Recall the leaked Dano code that was supposed to be the next official BeOS version, only Be never finished it. Well, someone worked on it a bit and came up with the Dano-based PhOS (PhosphurOS). Although a bit glitchy, there were some applications and features that could be taken from PhOS and used within an older BeOS installation.

Dano0 was leaked in two formats - an installable stable binary similar to an official release (R5.1?) and the full PPC/X86 source code (R6.0?). Details are very sketchy and myths are more common than facts. The zero (0) here is not a typo as many posts suggest that this was the code name at the time it was leaked and indicate its non-finished status.

The developer of PhOS also stated that he had contributed into Zeta for some time. It is unclear how much inter-breeding between the two projects occurred.

If one desires to experience what the BeOS R6.0 might have been, Zeta R1.21 may be preferable to PhOS - at least Zeta R1.21 understood USB devices, could boot from an USB drive, was (and probably still) available as a downloadable livecd, and still circulates for sale on eBay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobthearch
In short, I would skip the old and rare 4.5 Demo CD altogether. Either use PE for testing, or jump right into 5.0 Pro or one of the other CD-based distros like Max or Developers Edition. For newer hardware, best bet is definitely Haiku.

Similarly to the relatively short-lived Windows Vista caught between the well-established and stable Windows XP and the still to come Windows 7, BeOS R5.0 was a release with mixed blessings. Hyper-fanatics claim that R4.5 is still vastly superior to R5.0.

Nevertheless, the early pentium class systems are approaching the 20-year age for declaration as "vintage computers". BeOS R4.5 (or R4.0) which can still be easily acquired via eBay could be an interesting experiment for many collectors and a nice topic of conversation at future "Vintage Computer Fests" - although nothing will truely beat the real thing - a BeBox.....

Some may remember the BeIA venture.....this lowly pentium class machine with something like a 16 Mb memory and 32 Mb flash card as hard-drive was based on the R4.5 branch of the BeOS source code.....given the current success of netbooks and the entry of ARM into the supply of single and multi-core RISC chips targetting the netbook market and one can easily see these as plausible reasons why Access has been so strongly defending its ownership of the BeOS intellectual property.

Let's hope that as Haiku marches towards its 1.0 release with alpha and beta releases, the past will all be forgotten and developpers (for fun and for profit) come back and really make this OS a fresh experience with a number of end-use applications available. Let's also hope that Access will eventually relax its grip on the BeOS source code.


It is good that some background information about BeOS and the BeBoxens gets posted here - after-all, in a few years these will reach "vintage status". These posts will be there to guide the future collectors of these systems. At that time, there may even be a main heading in the forum to collect them together.
 
BlueOfRainbow, thanks for helping to fill in the gaps of my hazy explanation. I wasn't involved in BeOS professionally, and never worked in the computer field at all, but I was around back-when and remember following all of the BeOS - PE - PhOS - Zeta developments in real time.

One last thing I'd like to share, here is a list of items that were new in PhOS and could be pulled and used as-is within a PE installation:

APPLICATIONS:
Pulse
Calculator IV
Helios
Mahjongg
Tank Game

DEMOS
Flight
Kaliedescope
3D Mov
BeBounce
Mandelbot
Be Logo
 
Thank you very much for the replies. I posted on CL and I think I have found a local guy who has 4.5 on hand. Initially I think I will try it out on an old Pentium 1 I have and then move onto a P2 server with dual processors, that way I will have a base line for compatibility.

I have a slow P4 that I use to check for useful data on hard drives that come in some of the units I get from the recycler. I will set it up with a medium sized drive and install Haiku on it as well, so I can get a feel of both the original and the new generation.

Looks like this is going to be a fun campaign :)

-Lance
 
It's Aliiiiiiiiive

It's Aliiiiiiiiive

After a few days of waiting, a little bit of case painting, and a small amount of pulling out my hair getting networking up and running here I am posting to the forum on my very first BeOS computer! Now to see what this baby can do

Computer Specs:

Pentium III 933
512 MB Ram
10 GB HD
CD Burner
Painted Compaq Deskpro Case

Next project will be to get the keyboard body and mouse body painted to match the tower :)

beos.JPG


-Lance
 
Very nice! If you don't want to paint a mouse have a look at the Saitek series which come in many colours. Put PM09At into Google, click images and you will see what I mean! NCIX has one in stock.
 
The blue paint is a nice touch. :thumbsup: Mixed feelings about the red BeOS sticker - it looks cool, but I don't really 'get' it.

So which operating system version did you go with for the primary installation? Any glitches yet with hardware compatibility?

I assume you've found this website, the [probably] best source for BeOS software on the internet. Applications and games, drivers, patches, etc.: http://www.bebits.com/
 
I followed your advice (Bobthearch) and picked up the 5.0.3 Pro version from Purplus. Oddly I couldn't get the Paypal link on their website to work, as luck would have it they also sell on ebay and ended up being a buck cheaper (and I used Paypal)

My only hardware problem so far was its refusal to recognize the onboard LAN. I put a kingston pci card in, clicked the DHCP radio button and restarted networking. Online instantly. I was really surprised when I booted up and it had a burn CD option in the menu. I pulled it apart immediately and popped a CDRW in it. It also worked with no troubles, which I was a little surprised about as the CRW was out of a few year old P4 I scrapped. (I should point out that due to the age of the machine and the OS I am setting my Master/Slave manually, not using CS)

The Beos sticker really isn't my favorite, but is the only one i have that isn't on a white background. A friend of mine who does vinyl graphics is going to make me one of the rectangular ones that have the Be on top and OS on the bottom in blue red and black. I had tons of the old compaq P3s that went to through the recovery process. I liked the case design so much that I pulled kept several of them for future reference (like this project) and also a ton of the little face plates for just such an occasion (the piece with the red Be sticker on it pulls right off so easy to interchange)

I have spent some time at Bebits, my first download from there was SeaMonkey.

I am not getting too carried away with this box at the moment. I bought a really cool old IBM Intellistation Z Pro with 2 Pentium Pro Overdrives that are 333 MHz each and have 512K of cache. I ran an ad on CL looking for a dual P Pro 200 box, this is what popped up. The HDs are SCSI. One of them is apparantly burned, but the other is still usable. The seller told me it was a 10k 18GB, haven't fired it up yet. Having too much fun with the homebuilt at the moment :)

Once I master the intel version I will see what I can do with the Power Macintosh G3 power PC I saved from the recycler.

-Lance
 
That all sounds GREAT. I'm glad it worked out for you.

Darshevo said:
Once I master the intel version I will see what I can do with the Power Macintosh G3 power PC I saved from the recycler.
Click to expand...

Despite being originally designed as PowerPC-centric, BeOS doesn't really run on many Mac computers. Can't be too old, can't be too new, and requires a certain MacOS version.

I don't think it'll run on a G3, for example. The reason, when Apple cut off the clone makers in the 1990s, Apple also stopped providing necessary hardware details.

Here's a list of BeOS compatible PPC systems:
http://www.tycomsystems.com/beos/ppc_ready.html

Also, installation is a chore. I've tried in the past but failed due to an incompatible MacOS version. You see, BeOS PPC doesn't install or boot as an actual stand-alone OS, it must operate through the MacOS Extensions panel.

Here's an old topic of mine on another forum regarding the process:
http://www.computing.net/answers/beos/beos-install-on-ppc-help-please/1241.html
 
It is as you suspected, my old G3's are a no go. In reality its no big deal. I am not much of a mac guy anyway. The ones I have in my collection are there for there aesthetics, not because I ever use them. I was the Commodore kid back in the day, never got into apples except for the Logo class I took in school on a //e.

I think I will jump right into the IBM build. The blue case can go into the collection, it will display nicely. I'll put the Intellistation under the desk with the other towers that get put into use occasionally

-Lance
 
Very nice attempt at re-creating a dream

Very nice attempt at re-creating a dream

I like your attempt. The shade of blue used is on the light side compared to an actual BeBox. Nevertheless, the fun part of running it is the most important one. :)

One may have a look at http://www.bebox.nu which provides several images of prototype, pre-production and production BeBoxens (this is not a spelling mistakes - it's the way the plural form has become known as).
 
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