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Best PCI graphics card for W98?

C

Capt. 2110

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May 23, 2015
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I'm trying to find the best non-AGP card fora Windows 98 machine. Any recommendations?
 
I like the GeForce 5200 that I currently have in my Intel 815 PIII tweener. It dual boots W98SE/XP SP3 as well as DOS. I've never had a problem with it.
 
For a Windows or DOS PC, I think the GeForce FX5200 is a better choice than the ATI card. Mine is passively cooled and supports everything well up to Windows Vista. Under DOS, you have to use a generic 256 Color driver, but at the speed of the graphics card, it doesn't really matter.
 
It would be fine to know what machine is the graphics card for, because I bought an ATI Radeon 9250 PCI 128MB for my 486 and it doesn't work, but the worst thing is that it doesn't work in a Pentium-Pro, so I bought a graphic card for an old machine and I just can use it in a PC which supports AGP cards.

In Spain we usually say "now I'm going to eat the graphics card with potatoes" because it's not useful in older machines so... I'll eat it (I can't do any other thing with it).
 
128mb of vram is way overkill for a 486. My first gen Pentium only has 24mb of system ram, and here you are trying to stick a gpu with 128 mb of vram into a 486? No wonder it didn't work.
 
I think there are ATI Radeon 9250 PCI Cards with 256MB VRAM and they probably have a 128Bit memory-interface?
 
TravisHuckins said:
128mb of vram is way overkill for a 486. My first gen Pentium only has 24mb of system ram, and here you are trying to stick a gpu with 128 mb of vram into a 486? No wonder it didn't work.
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Actually, most PCI video cards don't work in 486 PCI slots. The spec was new and the timing wasn't very tight in the very first PCI implementations. The OP is better off putting an ISA video card in his 486 for the least hassle.
 
Trixter said:
Actually, most PCI video cards don't work in 486 PCI slots. The spec was new and the timing wasn't very tight in the very first PCI implementations. The OP is better off putting an ISA video card in his 486 for the least hassle.
Click to expand...

It's more to do with later PCI cards using BIOSes which use Pentium specific assembly instructions. It's the same reason why a PCI card designed for x86 won't work in PowerPC or another architecture, the BIOS code can't run to init the card.

An example would be a Voodoo2 will work fine in a 486 because it's a memory mapped I/O device and doesn't have a BIOS, while a Voodoo3 doesn't work (in my experience) because it has a BIOS that requires Pentium class assembly instructions.

It'd be interesting to see if a later card will work in a 486 board if a Pentium Overdrive is installed.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
It's more to do with later PCI cards using BIOSes which use Pentium specific assembly instructions. It's the same reason why a PCI card designed for x86 won't work in PowerPC or another architecture, the BIOS code can't run to init the card.

An example would be a Voodoo2 will work fine in a 486 because it's a memory mapped I/O device and doesn't have a BIOS, while a Voodoo3 doesn't work (in my experience) because it has a BIOS that requires Pentium class assembly instructions.
Click to expand...

The only significant instruction it could use over a 486 is CMPXCHG8B (also supported by the Overdrive), which isn't likely to be used in a VGA ROM. Many early 486 PCI chipsets were pretty lousy from a compatibility standpoint and only supported the PCI 2.0 standard. I wouldn't be surprised if early Pentium PCI chipsets were troublesome too (1993 socket 4 boards). PCI video cards will work fine in a 486, but they have to be ones from the mid to late 90s.
 
There are at least six instructions on the Pentium that are not present on the 486 (CPUID, CMPXCHG8B, RDTSC, RDMSR, WRMSR, RSM.) The first two are arguably useless, but the latter four could easily find use in the VGA BIOS.

RDMSR and WRMSR are especially useful as they allow reading and writing architecture model specific registers; Namely memory type name registers which control caching of memory areas used by graphics memory and other memory used by the PCI bus.

I think it would be an interesting experiment to get a 486 board that supports a Pentium Overdrive and one of the faster Am5x86 parts and swap between the two to see if specific PCI video cards or other PCI devices work with the Pentium but not the Am5x86.
 
I'm pretty sure that the Voodoo3 BIOS does not use Pentium instructions. I have one working in an SiS 497 based 486 board with an am5x86 and other 486 class CPUs. I think it's a bit picky about which boards it likes. I think I remember hearing it doesn't like UMC chipsets. The Voodoo3 is probably one of the fastest cards I would recommend using in a 486, because it is one of the last to have drivers for Windows 3.1. The DOS compatibility is also very good.
Honestly though, I think you'd be better off with 4MB S3 based cards. Maybe a Virge DX or GX. Even Trio64 is enough for a 486 class machine. If you want to get into details, search around on VOGONS. Some members over there have done extensive compatibility testing of PCI cards DOS environment and 486 systems.
 
I apologize if I'm late to the party, but depending on how you define 'best', Nvidia's GeForce 6200 comes in PCI and supports 1080p resolution. Nvidia hosts a Windows 98 driver for it too.
 
I can tell you I myself had a couple voodoo 2 cards running in SLI mode. Yes they run in tandom with you 2d card, but I ran those until about 2001, They never let me down. A pci voodoo 3 card is also a good choice for 98 era games.
 
NeXT said:
As someone who does not have the hardware to confirm this you better back up your claim with something more than a "No U".
Click to expand...

And you'll need to back up your claim that I don't have the hardware to test such configurations.

I'm not going to tear into my working AST system and risk damage to my POD83, which is in a LIF socket under an ISA riser, just to put it in another 486 with PCI slots to entertain someone who disagrees with me on the internet. It already has bent pins and took about an hour to get them straight enough to go into the LIF socket in the first place. I'm not going to do it again unless that machine packs up.
 
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