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Bosch FGS 4000

cr1901

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
817
Location
NJ
This is a stretch, but does anyone have any specs (especially CPU- curious) on this machines or pictures if they own one? The information on Google is lacking, and there's rather few pictures that aren't thumbnails or part of an advertisement.

Apparently, according to Wikipedia, this is the machine used to create the music video to "Money for Nothing", by Dire Straits. Seems like an interesting early graphics machine that's not an Amiga :P, only capable of face lighting. My, how far we've come...
 
Ah yes, the FGS 4000. I was -very- fortunate to work for Bosch during the fun-filled 80's, when the FGS was in full production. One of my responsibilities was to bring up the systems, repair them as needed, and fully qualify them prior to shipping. Those were memorable days, filled with stories, with Leland, Eddie, Tom, Dave, all in the test department. Tom spent a bit of time in England babysitting the machine while the Dire Straits piece was being created. The Engineering group at Bosch was the best I've worked with. Lynn, Phil, Dave, Scott and too many others I am remiss in mentioning. The processor board had a 68000, with associated memory (middle rack), but this was relegated to system control, and very little (if any) graphics processing. The real-time load was handled by a pipeline structure of bit-slice processors (top rack), each dedicated to a specific function. Only later were light-sources, (Phong and Garough sp?) shading and other features added to the product offering. Contact me by email if you'd like to know more. Bill
 
Ah yes, the FGS 4000. I was -very- fortunate to work for Bosch during the fun-filled 80's, when the FGS was in full production. One of my responsibilities was to bring up the systems, repair them as needed, and fully qualify them prior to shipping. Those were memorable days, filled with stories, with Leland, Eddie, Tom, Dave, all in the test department. Tom spent a bit of time in England babysitting the machine while the Dire Straits piece was being created. The Engineering group at Bosch was the best I've worked with. Lynn, Phil, Dave, Scott and too many others I am remiss in mentioning. The processor board had a 68000, with associated memory (middle rack), but this was relegated to system control, and very little (if any) graphics processing. The real-time load was handled by a pipeline structure of bit-slice processors (top rack), each dedicated to a specific function. Only later were light-sources, (Phong and Garough sp?) shading and other features added to the product offering. Contact me by email if you'd like to know more. Bill

I manage to never see the reply to this thread. It's a stretch, but I'd like to attempt to email him and get more information. Unfortunately, his email is not on his profile. Can an admin possibly help me out/DM me his email, since he consented to being emailed?
 
I manage to never see the reply to this thread. It's a stretch, but I'd like to attempt to email him and get more information. Unfortunately, his email is not on his profile. Can an admin possibly help me out/DM me his email, since he consented to being emailed?

I totally want to know more about this system!!!!
 
I totally want to know more about this system!!!!

That would make two of us. Unfortunately, this was his only post and his email/contact information is not listed on his profile. I suppose it'll forever remain a mystery unless a mod steps in (since they'd know what email he used)...
 
How completely bizarre to see the interest in this weird one-off system LOL. I find myself strangely capable to answer all your questions. I spent 5 years being an FGS-4000 animator. I was the first computer animator in Ireland in 1986, and the largest post-production house in the country, Windmill Lane Pictures, bought one to create shiny logos and VFX for a busy commercials and music video business, and I was hired to drive it. It was a crazy thing - huge hardware, took up almost two full racks with a racket of cooling fans - we kept it in a glass-fronted AC closet. I'm not a CS guy, but what I can remember is that it was a Motorola 68000 based CPU (which matched the Mac Plus on our desk), with a 16-bit, bit slice processor (which on its own, spanned the full width of the rack). I think it had 16MB RAM. It had an 8" floppy drive and two hard drive units, each of which contained two 25MB drives, one fixed, one removable, for a total of 100MB storage. Interface was a large custom keyboard with both hard and soft keys, and six dial knobs, and a pressure-sensitive pen, tablet and multi-button puck.

The mid Eighties marked the emergence of commercially available CGI animation systems (prior to this, there was really only companies like the early Pixar project who wrote their own systems, which were not possible to buy - it was their own IP), but the market was very small. At that time there were pretty much only four options if you wanted to go out and buy something you could create 3D computer animation on - Alias, Softimage, TDI, and the Bosch FGS-4000. Weirdly, only the Bosch was American (they were located in Salt Lake City - was it built by Mormons I often wondered?). Alias and Softimage were in Quebec, and TDI was French. The Bosch was unique among the four in that it was a hardware-based solution - the other three were software-only solutions running on Unix workstations (typically SGI or Sun). So the while the other systems could only display wireframes on a computer monitor as you created the work, the Bosch displayed solid flat shaded objects 100% of the time via a PAL or NTSC video monitor, and wireframes weren't used at all - there was no benefit in switching to wireframe even when the objects had become so complex realtime playback was no longer possible. This happened fairly soon - it didn't take a very complex object for frame rates to drop below realtime (maybe 10,000 triangles? I can't remember that much detail). Phong and Gouroud shaded objects would be rendered in software in the CPU instead of the GPU, a slow, video line by line operation viewable on the output as it rendered. It also featured a paint system, which wasn't bad, though definitely not as good as Quantel's Paintbox, which was quickly dominating that market. But, like all these things, it had some interesting tools.

Output was bonkers. Once the frame was rendered, a VTR in a separate machine room spun up, backed up 7 seconds, and rolled to make a 1-frame edit onto 1"C format video tape. That was the least reliable part of the process, as our projects became more complex and we'd spend two weeks rendering 24/7. All that spinning up and down (a 30-second commercial needs 750 edits) wore the hell out of the tapes and you could have a completely useless render because the video tape had dropouts. Ugh. I have stories of unhappy rendering experiences.

All the work I did on it was either for TV commercials with those metal shiny logos, or wacky FX for music videos, and paintbox-type effects, rotoscoping and the like. Everything had to spin in and land in those days, it was very MTV, hilarious and cheesy but it was a BIG deal at the time. After a few years, Bosch introduced a separate rendering device for it, which was a massive monster of a thing called the Pixelimator. It took up half a rack and was mighty heavy. It accelerated rendering like mad, which was becoming a bottleneck in CGI production by the late eighties as lighting and texture and bump mapped surfaces became more complex. The entire combo of the FGS and the Pixelimator cost over half a million bucks, no kidding. AFAIK, about 150 were built and sold around the world - it was really popular after the Dire Straits video (I was friends with those guys).

Eventually TDI slowly dropped away, Softimage did well for a few more years and I moved to that next, in the late 80s (it was way more sophisticated), and the Bosch's initial hardware lead faded away. But Alias just got stronger and stronger and more and more widely accepted, turned into Maya, and has ended up pretty much dominating CGI ever since.

I've never visited your forums before but I hope you can enjoy the read. I haven't ever written or thought about the FGS in 35 years, and to blunder into this thread had me laughing like a drain.
 
Ah yes, the FGS 4000. I was -very- fortunate to work for Bosch during the fun-filled 80's, when the FGS was in full production. One of my responsibilities was to bring up the systems, repair them as needed, and fully qualify them prior to shipping. Those were memorable days, filled with stories, with Leland, Eddie, Tom, Dave, all in the test department. Tom spent a bit of time in England babysitting the machine while the Dire Straits piece was being created. The Engineering group at Bosch was the best I've worked with. Lynn, Phil, Dave, Scott and too many others I am remiss in mentioning. The processor board had a 68000, with associated memory (middle rack), but this was relegated to system control, and very little (if any) graphics processing. The real-time load was handled by a pipeline structure of bit-slice processors (top rack), each dedicated to a specific function. Only later were light-sources, (Phong and Garough sp?) shading and other features added to the product offering. Contact me by email if you'd like to know more. Bill
I actually did the DIre Straits Money for Nothing Video. Happy days with Tom, then Kelly. I loved you guys at SLC. Great guys, Al, Kent, Phil, Dave, Tom, Kelly, and a great girl, Susan.
 
How completely bizarre to see the interest in this weird one-off system LOL. I find myself strangely capable to answer all your questions. I spent 5 years being an FGS-4000 animator. I was the first computer animator in Ireland in 1986, and the largest post-production house in the country, Windmill Lane Pictures, bought one to create shiny logos and VFX for a busy commercials and music video business, and I was hired to drive it. It was a crazy thing - huge hardware, took up almost two full racks with a racket of cooling fans - we kept it in a glass-fronted AC closet. I'm not a CS guy, but what I can remember is that it was a Motorola 68000 based CPU (which matched the Mac Plus on our desk), with a 16-bit, bit slice processor (which on its own, spanned the full width of the rack). I think it had 16MB RAM. It had an 8" floppy drive and two hard drive units, each of which contained two 25MB drives, one fixed, one removable, for a total of 100MB storage. Interface was a large custom keyboard with both hard and soft keys, and six dial knobs, and a pressure-sensitive pen, tablet and multi-button puck.

The mid Eighties marked the emergence of commercially available CGI animation systems (prior to this, there was really only companies like the early Pixar project who wrote their own systems, which were not possible to buy - it was their own IP), but the market was very small. At that time there were pretty much only four options if you wanted to go out and buy something you could create 3D computer animation on - Alias, Softimage, TDI, and the Bosch FGS-4000. Weirdly, only the Bosch was American (they were located in Salt Lake City - was it built by Mormons I often wondered?). Alias and Softimage were in Quebec, and TDI was French. The Bosch was unique among the four in that it was a hardware-based solution - the other three were software-only solutions running on Unix workstations (typically SGI or Sun). So the while the other systems could only display wireframes on a computer monitor as you created the work, the Bosch displayed solid flat shaded objects 100% of the time via a PAL or NTSC video monitor, and wireframes weren't used at all - there was no benefit in switching to wireframe even when the objects had become so complex realtime playback was no longer possible. This happened fairly soon - it didn't take a very complex object for frame rates to drop below realtime (maybe 10,000 triangles? I can't remember that much detail). Phong and Gouroud shaded objects would be rendered in software in the CPU instead of the GPU, a slow, video line by line operation viewable on the output as it rendered. It also featured a paint system, which wasn't bad, though definitely not as good as Quantel's Paintbox, which was quickly dominating that market. But, like all these things, it had some interesting tools.

Output was bonkers. Once the frame was rendered, a VTR in a separate machine room spun up, backed up 7 seconds, and rolled to make a 1-frame edit onto 1"C format video tape. That was the least reliable part of the process, as our projects became more complex and we'd spend two weeks rendering 24/7. All that spinning up and down (a 30-second commercial needs 750 edits) wore the hell out of the tapes and you could have a completely useless render because the video tape had dropouts. Ugh. I have stories of unhappy rendering experiences.

All the work I did on it was either for TV commercials with those metal shiny logos, or wacky FX for music videos, and paintbox-type effects, rotoscoping and the like. Everything had to spin in and land in those days, it was very MTV, hilarious and cheesy but it was a BIG deal at the time. After a few years, Bosch introduced a separate rendering device for it, which was a massive monster of a thing called the Pixelimator. It took up half a rack and was mighty heavy. It accelerated rendering like mad, which was becoming a bottleneck in CGI production by the late eighties as lighting and texture and bump mapped surfaces became more complex. The entire combo of the FGS and the Pixelimator cost over half a million bucks, no kidding. AFAIK, about 150 were built and sold around the world - it was really popular after the Dire Straits video (I was friends with those guys).

Eventually TDI slowly dropped away, Softimage did well for a few more years and I moved to that next, in the late 80s (it was way more sophisticated), and the Bosch's initial hardware lead faded away. But Alias just got stronger and stronger and more and more widely accepted, turned into Maya, and has ended up pretty much dominating CGI ever since.

I've never visited your forums before but I hope you can enjoy the read. I haven't ever written or thought about the FGS in 35 years, and to blunder into this thread had me laughing like a drain.
It was called the PIXELERATOR. Is that you Phil?
 
This is a stretch, but does anyone have any specs (especially CPU- curious) on this machines or pictures if they own one? The information on Google is lacking, and there's rather few pictures that aren't thumbnails or part of an advertisement.

Apparently, according to Wikipedia, this is the machine used to create the music video to "Money for Nothing", by Dire Straits. Seems like an interesting early graphics machine that's not an Amiga :p, only capable of face lighting. My, how far we've come...
The FGS 4000 we did Money for Nothing on had just been upgraded from 500Kbs to 1 whole megabyte... Wow! So it was technically a FGS 4500. Some American post house accused me of having some how upgraded to 2MBs when I did the vid. Always laughed at that one.
 
I was just thinking about all the various computer graphic machines I’ve owned over the years. computer. compute. Back in late 1984 I started investigating computer graphics for tv in New Zealand. My background was in graphic design, commercial photography and industrial documentation production. At that stage no one had even heard of computer graphics. However I took myself off on a study trip to the US and visited a small company in Salt Lake City that was an offshoot of Bosch in Germany. They had adapted a computer that had been used for creating titles for tv to a full blown CG machine. Frame by frame animation, a video paintbox system, and an interface to a single frame 1” Sony video recorder. I saw a couple of other types of machines but nothing else was as versatile as the Bosch.
Now came the hard part - convincing bankers that this was a brilliant idea and was a financial little goldmine.
It was hard work but eventually the Bank of NZ agreed to lend me $1m to buy the Bosch FGS4000. A totally unsecured loan!
Now I had to do a hell of a selling job on the tv stations- only 2 in NZ at that stage, ad agencies, graphic designers, tv production houses and post production houses that we could do the work.
In the meantime I was trying to secure premises and get an engineer on board, plus look for an additional animator.
Premises and technical support were secured on favourable terms with Video Images in Auckland, a great little post production house. They offered the services of one of their engineers who they sent of to Bosch for training. They also installed the Sony single frame VCR.

Next step was to convince everyone that we could do the work. It took off slowly with initial jobs coming from Daihatsu, Shell, Reckitt & Colman, NZ Insurance, and TVNZ.

After three months of selling and operating the equipment I was knackered and decided to employ a second animator. I interviewed about 20 people, and it came down to a shortlist of two. A 20 year old girl graphic designer who had done some work on a Commodore 64 that was quite impressive. And a 17 year old lanky nerd of a student whose father was a computer engineer and his brother was a computer programmer. Other than a few drawings and a willingness to learn that was alll he could offer, but something just clicked and he got the job! He ended up being able to make the FGS just about sing. We were doing stuff that Bosch said was impossible to do on the FGS400, and just about every day. Even the engineer helped technically and creatively. The young operator was called Andrew Adamson. Look him up. He ended up going to Hollywood and writing and directing the first two Shrek movies and The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Oh and we also worked on the NZ promo for the Dire Straits”Money for Nothing” video. Due to copyright we had to totally recreate the characters in NZ but it showed everyone what we were capable of.

Best business decision I ever made was to employ Andrew.

So my Username of TMTR. That’s short for The Mouse That Roared” the small production company that took on the big guns with an FGS400 that eventually ended up at the tip. Sad really, should have gone to a science and technology museum.

Sorry this hasn’t been more technical but you’ve seen the rest from other posts.

Philip Morgan - founder of “The Mouse That Roared”
 
The FGS 4000 we did Money for Nothing on had just been upgraded from 500Kbs to 1 whole megabyte... Wow! So it was technically a FGS 4500. Some American post house accused me of having some how upgraded to 2MBs when I did the vid. Always laughed at that one.
have you any clue where the machine is now?
 
Susan Crouse here...

Hey Philip Morgan, and maybe Ian from Rushes! First off, I have to sadly report that Dr. Phil Lucht one of the primary inventors of the FGS-4000 died this week. He was one of the smartest men I ever knew. He had a PhD in Nuclear Physics and could have been a concert pianist. (in my grief, I stumbled upon this forum.)
I worked at one of the FGS beta-sites, at Z-Axis (Denver), then moved to Salt Lake to originally Bosch, later BTS when they joined with Philips. I started as a trainer, then quickly became the product manager when Jeff Davis moved over to run BTS engineering. I also was the PM for the Pixelerator rendering engine -ring architecture invented by Phil (which we also licensed to Alias) (Pixelerator-name correction from another post) and the FGS software modeling software "Satellite" we built used on Sun Microsystem computers. Both the secondary systems arose as we kept adding features like fractals, and realtime animations were more rare as Ian pointed out, so we wanted to take the load of modeling and rendering off the FGS and mainly use it for animating. When we added paint we marketed that system as the FGS-4500 Illustrator.

The FGS-4000 was essentially one full rack with a rendering pipeline, each board did something, shading, hidden line removal, texture mapping etc., the Pixelerator another half rack. I think the total FGS-4000 variation sales number was less than 75 total--but I left before the product was EOL. It shipped all over the world, in fact we broke the laws at the time when we shipped one to Russia because it exceded the number of colors on a computor you could export to Russia (some good stories from deliveries there and Central America.) Ian is pretty spot on for the combined cost. I put the submision together, and the FGS-4000 won a Technical Emmy in the late 1980's as the first realtime animation system, you can't find a record of the award, but somewhere I have proof of our trip to NY to accept the trophy. (variation on name number is packaging with all products FGS-Elite...etc.)

Unlike Scanimate from Computer Image, where I learned to be an animator, one still lives in at least one basement--and also won an emmy, I am not aware of any FGS-4000 systems still hidden in a closet. And Ian if that's you out there, I not only recall long customer calls when Money for Nothing was in production, I mistook your London accent and thought you were saying "black H' when you were saying "Block Edge." I also recall with joy our fun night out in Brighton at IBC!

And Philip Morgan, I also recall a great trip with Phil Lucht to train you on the FGS-400O which I think Evan Ricks came and installed. Do you remember the champaign cork and wasabi incident in the restaurant? So many great stories of trips around the world and tradeshows where early on we had a switch at the demo station to reboot the system if it crashed mid-demo. I created animations just for the purpose of submitting into the SIGGRAPH film and video show which I achieved at least once, a butterfly flying through a room. I also cut together demo reels from our customers that were featured most years from 84-2000 at least--and customers entered work themselves too. It was an incredible time where I met the likes of Bill Kovacs (CEO Wavefront), Jim Blynn, John Lasseter (Pixar) and watched many early luminaries of CGI give papers. It was a race after every SIGGRAPH to go back and start adding new features all those genius papers. (including the paint system Ian mentioned)

This was the best time of my life, and by far the best job and best people (and customers) I ever worked with…and you bet there were great smart Mormons on the team, but Phil, I and many others were not.

I may have access to a users manual-- I am pretty sure one is in Phil's basement. I still have attached some copies of brochures/specs. Also have animation on tape of our demo reels.
 

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I was fascinated by computer graphics as a kid growing up in the 80s; I'd watch in awe as some amazing examples (probably fresh from SIGGRAPH) were often shown on Micro Live (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0306370), and I remember the Bosch system being mentioned. I thought it was odd that the company who made my dad's power tools would also make a computer - but the earlier posts here explain how it was an offshoot, and a couple of decades later I was occasionally using a Bosch/BTS D-1 VCR to output stuff from the Quantel Henry that was my 'daily driver'. I'm still fascinated by early CGI, and would love to see more details of the interface of those early systems such as the FGS-4000 if anyone has anything.
 
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