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Does teletype paper degrade?

johnx993

johnx993

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
650
Location
Texas (mostly)
Is it just me, or is my paper getting brittle with age?
It seems to be getting snagged more often in the past few months.
I have the tractor feed version, so it gets chewed up pretty bad.
-J
 
Some breaks down faster than others. Most of the teletype paper I remember was terrible with the butcher paper style remaining in the same dubious quality a lot longer than the easier to read ones that dried out fast.
 
Perhaps I should have been more clear.
I meant break down since teletypes were commonly used. Say 40 years in a typical office environment.

Yes, I know paper degrades. I have 70 year old pulp SF that practically breaks when you touch it, and I have 400 year old bound books that are just fine.
It all depends on the paper composition and storage environment.

But it seems the paper used on teletypes was of low quality.
OTOH, oiled paper tapes seem to be doing fine.

It's just annoying when you try to print anything beyond 2 pages or so.
This was not a problem last year. So I guess the paper finally reached the weakness level where the mechanical action could tear it.


-J
 
rittwage said:
Entropy gets to everything, and everybody, eventually.

You could try making sure it's not drying out. Humidore, maybe?
Click to expand...

That's an excellent idea.
And suspicious, in that I installed a new de-humidifier in that room last year.
It keeps the room at 40% humidity - mainly so the old hardware won't corrode.
I didn't stop to think about the paper!

-J
 
johnx993 said:
It's just annoying when you try to print anything beyond 2 pages or so.
This was not a problem last year. So I guess the paper finally reached the weakness level where the mechanical action could tear it.
Click to expand...

Are you sure that the problem isn't with the printing mechanism? If you weren't having the problem last year, maybe the problem isn't with the paper. Does the paper feel significantly different from last year or are you not able to tell?

The reason I'm suggesting the printer might cause the problem is due to having the same type of problem happen with dot-matrix printers using contemporary (i. e. new at that time) paper. The problem usually turned out to be either a broken part or something stuck in the mechanism causing the printer to catch the paper and hold it back. This could be some sticky substance, rubbery substance, or a scrap of paper just putting tension on the fan fold by pressing it against the platen.

Also, is it possible that there is a paper thickness setting, friction feed mode, or tension adjustment for when the unit is working with non-tractor feed paper that got accidentally nudged into the wrong position?
 
acgs said:
Are you sure that the problem isn't with the printing mechanism? If you weren't having the problem last year, maybe the problem isn't with the paper. Does the paper feel significantly different from last year or are you not able to tell?
Click to expand...
Also a great suggestion.
I'll look into that.
But I can say a couple of things so far...
I haven't tweaked any settings. I run the TTY once a month, just to ensure everything is running. Then shut it down until next month.
And the paper itself just feels more fragile to my hands. I can tear it easily. I know that subjective. But that's my impression.
I have checked for jammed bits of paper/obstructions, but found none.
When I reload the paper after a tear, I can run it back and forth manually with no problems.
The tears always happen at the holes in the paper for the sprocket teeth.
-J
 
johnx993 said:
That's an excellent idea.
And suspicious, in that I installed a new de-humidifier in that room last year.
It keeps the room at 40% humidity - mainly so the old hardware won't corrode.
I didn't stop to think about the paper!

-J
Click to expand...
As long as the humidity is over 30% it should be fine. Too much humidity is also bad for paper (mold and mildew).

High temperatures and sunlight can also degrade paper. Ideal storage is under 70F and in the dark.
 
All mechanical printers are very dirty, accumulating paper dust everywhere. When I last used teletypes, they were being maintained often - which include lots of cleaning. Now, I'd expect the tractor-feed option to be better, but I've never seen a teletype's version of that. Platen-feed is terrible at handling the dust. If the forms tractor is driven by belts, they may degrade and stretch leading to problems. And the platen must still be clear of all debris and clean and dry. Does the tractor grip both incoming and outgoing paper? If not, I could see there being more issues. Double check if your tractor is supposed to grip the paper both in and out and make sure you set it up that way.
 
Teletype roll paper is high acid, like pulp paperbacks
It will degrade in the way you describe.

The lower the acidity, and the higher the cloth content
the longer paper lasts.
 
A couple of things I'm trying....
a) long term, put my spare paper rolls in a plastic bag with desiccant, then drop them in the deep freeze.
b) short term, I found there is less stress and tearing on the paper if I route the paper over the top of the roll instead of under the bottom.
My understanding is that 'under the bottom' is the preferred path as the rotation of the paper roll helps the printed paper to flow down the back of the machine.
-J
 
If it were me, I'd be concerned with freezing. Long term freezing tends to take out all moisture, which is not what you want. I'd also be worried about defrost cycles, especially if the freezer does those automatically.

For what it's worth, Google AI has this to say: "However, freezing is not a general preservation method. If your paper is dry and intact, cold temperatures won't reverse natural aging and can actually make paper fibers more brittle over time."
 
So there is much more to this. There are 'deacidification sprays' available.
Unfortunately they are marketed to the low volume rare document market.
Using them for hundreds of feet of rolled paper would be very expensive.
-J
 
OK, I located some modern-era compatible tractor feed paper here:
TTY Greenbar Tractor-feed paper

The only problem it's in a box, fanfold. Not on a roll.
Of course, I could pull the TTY away from the wall a couple of feet, but I'd rather not.
On the off chance, does anyone have experience spooling paper on a roll?
I'm thinking of making a hand-crank jig for it, but I'll have to keep things delicate for fear of tearing the paper .
-J
 
johnx993 said:
On the off chance, does anyone have experience spooling paper on a roll?
I'm thinking of making a hand-crank jig for it, but I'll have to keep things delicate for fear of tearing the paper .
Click to expand...
I've done it on my plotter. It had motors on the spools so was just turn them on and try to keep the paper spooling evenly. The motors are low torque since they sit stalled keeping the paper under tension.https://www.pdp8online.com/shows/vcfe24/pics/20240413_103346.shtml?small

Uneven pull can cause the perforations to tear especially if you got the microperf paper. I was using normal and didn't have problems.
 
johnx993 said:
On the off chance, does anyone have experience spooling paper on a roll?
I'm thinking of making a hand-crank jig for it, but I'll have to keep things delicate for fear of tearing the paper .
Click to expand...

I've never had to try it, but adding to @djg's experience, I think you'd have to be VERY careful rolling fan-fold paper for use. The perforations could possibly cause problems if there were any tear off starts at the edges. These could possibly snag in the printing mechanism and cause more tearing.

Maybe you should try rolling just a handful of fan-fold pages first and see how it works. That's assuming, of course, that you have such paper available in a small enough quantity that you aren't wasting money just to try it out.
 
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