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Help with IBM 5110

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kkingsto

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Aug 15, 2023
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I Just purchased this from a seller on eBay, When I power up the unit, the fan spins so it is getting power. No display and no red lights. Any idea if it's dead or no? I'm planning on opening it up and trying to reseat any cards. Thanks!
 
It is more than likely the cards have dropped as they are upside down. Definitely open it (you really should before opening anything this old) and unscrew the card cage. It lifts to one side. BE VERY CAREFUL as the cards will fall out if they are loose. They need to go exactly in the slot they were originally in so make sure you open it very carefully and if the cards did fall out of their sockets, put a hand underneath the card cage and try to keep the cards in their place as you lift it open.
 
Thanks for that answer. I found the one big screw (closer to the front) but the cage is still tight. I found a bracket with 2 bolts in it. Are there other places where the cage is bolted down?
 
It's been a bit for me. I am pretty sure it's just one flat headed screw and that side lifts up and over as the other side has two hinges. Check the pictures here to give you some idea: https://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-5100-in-pictures/ . Also, there MAY be one more screw because the power supply also moves with the card cage. Check this "before" picture. Behind the monitor, there is a screw hole but I don't remember if it has a screw that needs to be removed. https://vintagecomputer.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IMG_20150312_142414.jpg

Note, there is (was) foam under the cards that will be like tar and it's very sticky (you can see it in the "before" picture ). That might be causing the resistance as you try to open it. .
 
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Thanks for that update. Got the one screw near the power supply. practically EVERY card had fallen out. Managed to hold the double-covered card and the next two to the right of it. The far right card I'm not sure if I reseated it in the right slot but I think I did (took a photo before the cage was lifted.

The two from the left and the short card, Not sure if I got them in the right place. Is there a way to verify where they go?

photos.app.goo.gl

New item by Karl Kingston

photos.app.goo.gl photos.app.goo.gl

The machine is the APL/Basic version. Not sure of the memory size but a plate on the bottom says 5110 C.

Thanks for helping with this.
 
Just closed it up and tried to power up.. Nothing happening. No lights and the display is dark. Heard from the seller and he says something like it takes 20-30 minutes for the display to light up??!? Last I remember it's like 25 seconds or so...
 
Do you hear the sound of the fan at least? Any mechanical noise at all? On a working system, the tape drive motor is always running and there is a fan. If you hear absolute silence, then I would first suspect a fuse --- and if indeed a blown fuse is found, the next question is why it blew.

It shouldn't take 20-30 minutes for the display on a 5100-series machine to get going. What that would indicate to me is that there's some part that doesn't work until the rest of the machine warms it up a bit.
 
I can hear and feel the fan. Not sure about internal tape unit. I'm hearing impaired and probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the fan and the tape unit.

Other thing I have to ask is: how does one keep the cards from falling out? Seems like they are pretty loose to start with.
 
Hmm... I think if they're falling out, odds are that they aren't really in, and that could explain some of your trouble.

I've only inserted the cards into my 5100 once, but when I did I was only successful when I had the computer on a large, firm, flat surface without any padding, props, or clutter. From your photo, it looks like the swing-out card assembly is hanging off the edge of a table; perhaps it would make sense to set things up somewhere else and try inserting the cards again?
 
kkingsto said:
Other thing I have to ask is: how does one keep the cards from falling out? Seems like they are pretty loose to start with.
Click to expand...

The cards will fit snuggly into the slots and make a bit of a snapping sound when properly fit. You will also be able to feel it but it's hard to explain until you've felt it. If you can pull the card out with minimal force, it's not in the slot. Small cards take less force to remove and larger cards more force so it's relative to the card size.

When installing then, first, make sure the card is loosely in place and make sure they are at a perfect 90 degree angle to the slot. Move it back and forth slightly and make sure it's fairly loose. There are card guides that get in the way of the card is not in properly and it will make it difficult to rock the card back and forth slightly if not in place. With the card cage laid flat on a sturdy table , I use two hands and with the palms, I force the card into the slot. It does take a good amount of force but not too much. The CPU card, being a double card unit, takes a good amount of force to fit in. It should be pretty card to come out. A small card takes less force to go in and can be done with one hand. Once they are all in, if you flip the card cage over, nothing should fall out. The square foam pad they used was supposed to provide support but age has made it non-functional.

kkingsto said:
Thanks for that update. Got the one screw near the power supply. practically EVERY card had fallen out. Managed to hold the double-covered card and the next two to the right of it. The far right card I'm not sure if I reseated it in the right slot but I think I did (took a photo before the cage was lifted.
Click to expand...

Take a look at PDF page 30 of this document: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/...er_Maintenance_Information_Manual_Feb1979.pdf This is a map of the card cage and slot numbers and what cards go where. We'll call this document 1.

Take a look at PDF page 5 of this document: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/...m_Maintenance_Analysis_Procedures_Jan1979.pdf This has the card part numbers and slot that they fit in. We'll call this document 2.

How to verify:

If you take out a card, you can read the part number off of one of the slot connectors (bottom of the card) but they are really small, hard to read and have more numbers than the part number shown in document 2. You can see this picture with the part number circled in red.

5100_partnumber.jpg


As an example, this is a "Read/Write" or memory card. There can be multiple memory cards and these go in slot "M2" and "N2". Now each of these cards is actually made up of two cards stuck into one card "container" for lack of knowing the proper term. I know it goes into slot "M2" or "N2" as noted in document 1. In this document, you can see the letters along the top of the diagram and the numbers along the side. In this case, it's a full slot card so the "2" of "M2" doesn't really matter as much as the "M" does. You can also see it says "Read/Write" in doc 1. Now, look at the last column noted as "Part Number" on document 2. The first part of the part number on the card will match up with one of the part numbers and fit into the "Location" or slot location of document 1 (in this case one of two slots as there could be two cards). Your system has two cards so they go in slot M2 and N2.

Do this for the rest of your cards. If the CPU card is in firmly, don't take it out. Just verify the location in document 1. Note, when you remove a card, you can see the slot "location" printed on the PCB that lines up with the diagram in document 1. With this information, you should be able to verify the cards and their slot location.

Good luck.
 
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Seller wanted his computer back (I forked over $2000 for it). He said it was working which it wasn't. Still looking for an IBM 5100/5110 with APL/Basic if I can find one. Thanks for the help guys!
 
kkingsto said:
Seller wanted his computer back (I forked over $2000 for it). He said it was working which it wasn't. Still looking for an IBM 5100/5110 with APL/Basic if I can find one. Thanks for the help guys!
Click to expand...
Well that is pretty unusual. And likely it only "wasn't working" due to the accelerations it experienced in the shipping process (never forget F=ma, and why those cards are out of their slots). But it is amazing the forces you get when boxes are pushed off the back of trucks.

The seller might be concerned that there is shipping damage, like cards coming out of slots, and is not confident that you have the ability or experience to diagnose and repair the computer problems and is fearful of negative feedback. So the seller would rather receive the computer back & refund you, get it running again themselves, and re-sell it later.

This is the trouble with shipping of course because: "every stage in the shipping is equivalent to throwing the item down one flight of stairs"

I have sold some items in pristine condition, which I can guarantee, if the person hand collects the item from my house and lovingly hand carries them home. I usually specify, if it is shipped, it is sold for junk/parts only, because that is often the way it ends up when it gets to the buyer, despite how good the packing is.

You can figure out how this comes about if you watch this video:

 
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