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How do you deal with broken PROMs?

ppieczul

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
51
Location
Poland
I am in need for Apple III PROM 342-0061 at motherboard location C11.
Does anyone have spare to sell?
Is it possible to burn in a new prom assuming I could get unused parts? I could not find PROM images anywhere on the Internet.
Thanks
Pawel
 
IF you can obtain an image for that PROM from someone willing to provide that and you have an EPROM burner or help from someone who has, an EPROM can be programmed with that PROM image. In early Apple machines the CE (chip enable) line logic was reversed. In later Apples like the II+ an EPROM can be substituted for a PROM. The Apple //e contained two PROMs, the CD PROM and the EF PROM. The enhanced Apple //e contained one PROM, the CF PROM which was twice the size of either the CD or EF PROM. This was denoted on the motherboard. I have not seen an Apple III motherboard.
 
That might a tough one to replace, if you cannot find the original. It is a 16-pin package, and no one makes this package anymore. It is a bipolar PROM, and it is a 4-bit PROM which makes this even more of a challenge. The pinout is equivalent to an Intersil IM5623 or Fujitsu MB7052. I played around with this awhile back, which is why it is still fresh in my head. None of the programmers I had read this chip. I had to hodge-podge an adapter to read it. But reading it is only half the battle.

This PROM doesn't actually contain code. Instead, it contains a truth table, as it acts like a PAL or GAL. We call it a "combinational logic" PROM, and in this particular case it is used to address the DRAM. Even if you have the binary file for it, you need to get something like a 2716, along with an adapter, so that it can fit into the 16-pin socket on the motherboard. There are some people who sell adapters for this very purpose. The people who usually do this sort of thing are 8-bit arcade game enthusiasts.
 
256x4 bit PROM. (8 address lines, 2 chip enables, 4 output bits)

If you've got a truth table, you can probably adapt a GAL such as the 22V10. There's a bit of bit-twiddling involved to come up with a JEDEC programming file, but at least it can be done with a minimum of trying to fit a 28 or 24 pin DIP into a 16x0.300 socket. Note that I did something like this for the IBM 5160 memory mapping bipolar PROM a few years ago.
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MB7052-27S...ar-Proms-New-Old-stock-blank-duh/173384258254

If you do score the original C11 PROM and want to stick with the bi-polar PROM, contact the seller of this item. If you ask him really nicely, he can for an additional fee copy the original PROM with his DataIO programmer, and the program his MB7052 blank. Not sure if he'll do a one-off, as it may not be worth his time. To encourage him, I bought a bunch of the blanks, and had him program them for a restoration project I was working on.
 
I managed to find the images: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/apple_III/firmware/
And I managed to identify the compatible PROM chips:
TS 82S137, 6353-1, TBP24S41, HM7643-5, 29641, 27S33, 74S573, 3625
I actually have on my motherboard three different of them and they are all marked in the service manual as 7643

So what I need is a programmer or George could be so kind to program them for me? I can send the chips (I bought 27S33) or refund if you can use yours.
I would consider to buy a programmer myself for the future, if you can advise me what to buy and if this is not terribly expensive.
I have a low end EPROM programmer but it does not do PROMs unfortunatelly.

Thanks for your help
Pawel
 
I never had these 18-pin proms, but according to the spec. my HILO ALL-07C programmer can program them. I am in Bulgаriа, so it would be no problem to program them...For free, of course.
 
I never had these 18-pin proms, but according to the spec. my HILO ALL-07C programmer can program them. I am in Bulgаriа, so it would be no problem to program them...For free, of course.

You are absolutely amazing. I will contact you offline when my chips arrive. Of course I want to refund all the costs to you no question about it. Thanks a lot.
 
George I dropped you a private message. In case you are registered for the notifications here.
 
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