I wonder how long I can expect a new Monitor to last

[Eudimorphodon]

The number of large flat screen TV's I have had to trash now due to dead pixels is becoming legendary.

Apparently I must be doing something wrong, because in 20 something years I don’t know that I’ve ever had an LCD develop dead pixels from normal use. Ever. I’ve had backlights fade/develop that reddish discoloration that’s pretty common on laptops made before, I dunno, 2005, but bad pixels?

I guess do have one defective LCD panel that I got stuck with by an unscrupulous AliExpress vendor that has “burn in” from its previous life as an in-flight entertainment screen, so I know it’s *possible* if you really put your mind to it to damage LCD screens that way, but… yeah, I dunno, I guess I’ve had better luck picking TVs.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

But maybe the AI forgot, if you take most of the electrical items out of a gasoline powered car, such as electric fuel pumps, fuel injection, electric steering and other electric controls etc and go for mechanical solutions, with the right design (and minimal electrical equipment in the car) you can get the efficiency of a petrol powered car to near 40% or a little more and get back to that vintage 1000cc Morris Minor idea

So… a couple points here:

A: sure, a 1000cc morris minor with a manual transmission, no AC, and no power steering will have less “parasitic” drag on the engine when cruising at a steady highway speed than a hybrid. But if you add those features it’s missing back in with mechanical solutions you will be adding at least as much or more drag with their separate mechanical pumps than a modern high efficiency alternator driving things like electric rack-and-pinion steering will.

B: the point of a hybrid is to store/recover energy that’s completely wasted in a conventional vehicle. A modern hybrid doesn’t need to idle while stopped, it can recover a significant amount of energy when the car decelerates using regenerative braking, they can leave the gasoline engine off entirely when operating at low speed in stop-and-go traffic, etc. This is why when you look at estimated mileage numbers hybrids often get better mileage “in town” verses freeway, the opposite of conventional vehicles: they are *much* better at aggregate power management than a normal car.

I don’t have a hybrid myself, but I know several people that have “plug-in hybrids” with the extended battery systems that allow them to run 30-40 miles on stored charge at low speeds and can be topped off using normal house current at night. It’s not unusual for them to not have to buy gas for *months* using the car for their normal short/medium range commutes. When I have to replace my small car this is probably the way I’m going to go unless we’re forced to go completely electric, because this really is probably the best of both worlds.

 

[Quagmire]

I never understood the idea of hydrogen powered cars. You burn so much of it that you need the supply to be under great pressure and all cars will eventually leak so you have a major fire hazard or explosion.

Electric cars make sense if you have small cheap nuclear reactors in every neighborhood and batteries get much smaller and more energy dense. If you burn coal to make electricity to power cars you might as well just use gas.

I'm about to buy my wife a new AWD hybrid SUV. It will have a 4 cylinder turbo changed motor. On battery it will do about 25 miles and on the road combined it will get about 58 mpg. We will plug it into a 240vac will socket.

 

[twolazy]

I haven't had a monitor die in over 25 years (other then a vintage Apple CRT, but that most likely just needs a recap), perhaps I am lucky. Most all my modern displays are Sceptre brand. Even my Panasonic plasma still works great. *shrug*. Maybe its due to me using decent power strips/conditioners? I do mostly use Tripp Lite branded ones and not generic...

 

[seaken]

The inability to repair is a big problem. Most folks won't even try to fix a monitor themselves and there are rarely any local fix-it shops anymore. And while I have lots of CRTs around here, if one stops working I am not inclined to fix it. I don't have those skills. (I can give it away to someone in the community who does though). If the CRT dies I swap it out for another working one, usually of lesser quality. The backup up CRT is on the storage shelf because it is not as good as the one I am using.

Same for LCD's. I have several old 4x3 14" and 15" monitors. If my daily driver breaks I can quickly swap in a backup monitor. But I take a big hit in the ability to view more stuff on the screen. What I can't do is take it down to the repair shop and have it fixed in a few days and then put it back into service. So, it makes sense to be able to run out to the local retail and buy a replacement monitor quickly to get back to work.

If all I wanted was a better monitor I would probably research what is available in a price range I find acceptable and then order it to be delivered to my office. And, in fact, I will doing just that in the next few months. But I am not yet convinced that this new cheaper monitor is worse than the 12 year old monitor I had. I only wonder if it will last 12 years. Maybe, maybe not. But for $120 I am not too concerned if it doesn't last at least 10 years. If it conks out in 6 months then I won't be happy.

In the meantime, I will attempt to repair the old monitor and put into service on another work station that now has a lesser monitor. I will then place the lesser monitor in storage have it ready as a backup. If the monitor is not fixed then I will replace this new monitor I just bought with a better researched monitor and put this new one into use somewhere else.

Remember, this thread is about my modern office equipment, not my Vintage stuff. I make different decisions in my office than in my lab. I cherish an old CGA CRT in my lab, where it is attached to a Tandy 1000HD, but I would never again use it the office. But if that CRT breaks one day I may decide to replace it with one of these modern portable LCD screens mentioned above. I will at least consider doing that as a backup. And in my lab I would just let the Tandy 1000HD sit until I could source a replacement screen. And that might take take months. That is an unacceptable wait time in the office.

Seaken

 

[Eudimorphodon]

Even my Panasonic plasma still works great.

Back in the mid-aughts I used to have to make regular visits to a colo facility that decided to decorate their lobby with a wall of plasma TVs displaying a loop of techno-propaganda. (The whole facility was decorated with this over-the-top techno-futuristic vibe; diamondplate steel as wall paneling, blue LED lights friggin' everywhere... they were *really* trying too hard.) Those poor TVs only lasted about a year and a half before their screens were utterly scorched with burn-in; literally looked like they'd been branded.

Don't get me wrong, Plasma TVs are great for actually watching movies, but don't ever use one as a sign.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Remember, this thread is about my modern office equipment, not my Vintage stuff.

That makes it a bit difficult to point out examples of gear still working after 40 years in service, I'd say.

 

[Quagmire]

The inability to repair is a big problem. Most folks won't even try to fix a monitor themselves and there are rarely any local fix-it shops anymore. And while I have lots of CRTs around here, if one stops working I am not inclined to fix it. I don't have those skills. (I can give it away to someone in the community who does though). If the CRT dies I swap it out for another working one, usually of lesser quality. The backup up CRT is on the storage shelf because it is not as good as the one I am using.

Same for LCD's. I have several old 4x3 14" and 15" monitors. If my daily driver breaks I can quickly swap in a backup monitor. But I take a big hit in the ability to view more stuff on the screen. What I can't do is take it down to the repair shop and have it fixed in a few days and then put it back into service. So, it makes sense to be able to run out to the local retail and buy a replacement monitor quickly to get back to work.

If all I wanted was a better monitor I would probably research what is available in a price range I find acceptable and then order it to be delivered to my office. And, in fact, I will doing just that in the next few months. But I am not yet convinced that this new cheaper monitor is worse than the 12 year old monitor I had. I only wonder if it will last 12 years. Maybe, maybe not. But for $120 I am not too concerned if it doesn't last at least 10 years. If it conks out in 6 months then I won't be happy.

In the meantime, I will attempt to repair the old monitor and put into service on another work station that now has a lesser monitor. I will then place the lesser monitor in storage have it ready as a backup. If the monitor is not fixed then I will replace this new monitor I just bought with a better researched monitor and put this new one into use somewhere else.

Remember, this thread is about my modern office equipment, not my Vintage stuff. I make different decisions in my office than in my lab. I cherish an old CGA CRT in my lab, where it is attached to a Tandy 1000HD, but I would never again use it the office. But if that CRT breaks one day I may decide to replace it with one of these modern portable LCD screens mentioned above. I will at least consider doing that as a backup. And in my lab I would just let the Tandy 1000HD sit until I could source a replacement screen. And that might take take months. That is an unacceptable wait time in the office.

Seaken

Do your self a favor. Go into town to some "sports bar" and take a good look at what's hanging about on the walls. Talk to a manager or even the owner and see what he had to say about his/her LCD's. You can spend less than $200 and get a great monitor these days. As far as longevity, it's not a problem. I've never had a flat screen go bad and I've had them from day one. Just go find what ever looks good to you and buy it.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

But I am not yet convinced that this new cheaper monitor is worse than the 12 year old monitor I had

I guess I’m a little curious why your root assumption that a monitor from 12 years ago is going to be better than a new one is so strong. I mean, I get it, the same size/resolution monitor was more expensive back then, but… to use a possibility ridiculous example, in 1954 an RCA CT-100 color television, (15 inch tube, about 12” viewable) cost about a thousand dollars. (Around $11,000 today!) Checking the 1966 Sears catalog the smallest color TV they had was a 19” set for $329, or about 1/4 as much adjusting for inflation, and… I absolutely guarantee you that 1966 set both looked better and was more reliable than the 1954 model.(*)

(* I mean, sure, its reliability was still probably garbage, most TVs were bad before going fully solid state in the 70’s, but the 50’s ones were *really bad*.)

Sometimes humans get better at building things and those things get cheaper. I mean, I get it, it kind of blows my mind that IPS TV panels up to five plus feet in diagonal measurement might cost you less than a simple piece of tempered glass, but that’s economy of scale at work.

 

[Unknown_K]

When LCD monitors were the new big thing (and were expensive and sucked) I was still buying new CRT monitors for home office tasks because they were so cheap and reliable. The tech was perfected over decades and the factories were paid for many times over, so they kept cranking out CRT monitors until nobody wanted them anymore. If for some reason CRT monitors would become the it thing now, they would be shitty and expensive again until the tech was relearned, and the new factories were paid for.

New technology takes time to perfect and get volume production. I still remember the guaratees you got when purching a new small panel low resolution (by todays standards) LCD monitor as how many dead pixels there were and how many could be next to each other. When is the last time you got a TV or monitor with ANY dead pixels?

Last year when I went to Walmart to get a 40" 1080P TV replacement for my 32" 720P TV I seen you can still get 32" 720P TVs for like $80 for the kids room or kitchen. Some factory must still be cranking out those old 720P panels for next to nothing.

 

[seaken]

That makes it a bit difficult to point out examples of gear still working after 40 years in service, I'd say.

True. But I won't be around in 40 years. Ten to twelve years should be enough for me - for the LCD.

I bought my Goldtstar CGA in about 1989. That's 36 years. And it's still going! My N* Advantage's CRT is still working too, at about 43 years! But the oldest LCD I have is about from the 2000's. I don't remember.

Seaken

 

[seaken]

I guess I’m a little curious why your root assumption that a monitor from 12 years ago is going to be better than a new one is so strong.

I guess it's because I am a little biased toward good stuff from yesteryear. Seems like so much stuff these days is made cheap and doesn't have the feel of quality. When was the last time you could find a good toolbox?

Seaken

 

[Eudimorphodon]

Seems like so much stuff these days is made cheap and doesn't have the feel of quality. When was the last time you could find a good toolbox?

Oh, sure, there's plenty of stuff that sucks today, not going to deny that. Generally speaking a thing that's really gone downhill across the board is the quality of inexpensive injection molded plastic; back then the raw materials were cheaper and they used more plasticizer so most cheap toys and household tools were a lot more "rubbery" and less brittle. But... I guess when I say the raw materials were "cheaper" that kind of comes with an asterisk, because in terms of inflation adjusted dollars even the cheapest items you could buy back then were more expensive than they are now. Honestly, what's really happened is at the same time manufacturing has gotten "better" it's also enabled us to push new limits of "cheapness", IE, products that simply wouldn't be feasible to make because they'd be too crappy to even make it off the assembly line are now able to make it into cardboard bubble packages and be shipped overseas, where consumers who apparently don't care about quality (or legitimately can't afford any better anymore) buy them, use them once (and have a terrible user experience because it breaks immediately/fits really badly/wears out quickly/whatever), throw them away, and then end up buying exactly the same thing again. This race to the bottom is clearly on display in every dollar store and Temu/Wish.com app installed on the phones of people who buy stuff from dollar stores and, well, I think it's pretty gross and I wish our culture, society, and economy would encourage better behavior...

But that said, unless you actually buy your computer monitors from Temu or the dollar store you probably *are* actually going to be on the winning side of these improvements in manufacturing quality because, frankly, the difference in manufacturing cost between a beautiful high-quality IPS LCD panel and one that doesn't work at all is basically zero. I mean, sure, if you really go out of your way to find the absolute cheapest possible source for a monitor you might manage to find a fly-by-night outfit that's sourcing panels that were discarded from the factory for having massive manufacturing defects and are wrapping them in dollar-store quality plastic castings, but you'll probably have to go to Temu or AliExpress for that; if it makes it to a brick-and-morter store there are at least a few incentives still in place to make sure you end up with something that's not obviously broken out of the box, and if it's not broken out of the box it's probably going to be good for whatever the reasonable lifetime for such a product is.

 

[seaken]

I bought a COBY Android tablet from a record store once. That was broken out of the box. The cheapest Android tablet possible. But I had never had a tablet before so I said "what the heck?" What a piece of junk! The next time I bought a tablet I was more careful. And I STILL got burned after it stopped being supported only a couple of years later. Oh well, live and learn. (I learned that tablets, like smart phones, are disposable items and not meant to last more than a couple years).

Seaken

 

[Quagmire]

Keep this in mind with shopping for a new LCD. There are only 2 consumer manufacturers of LCD panels; i.e. AU Optronics and LG. Display.
Everything else is aesthetics. Most of the LCD monitor costs goes into "features". The monitor I'm looking at right now is a ViewSonic 27" IPS LCD 1440. The build quality is excellent. The main difference is in the electronics behind the panel. The engineering, that's what really counts. Also. the plastic that encases it all.

 

[Plasma]

Seems like so much stuff these days is made cheap and doesn't have the feel of quality. When was the last time you could find a good toolbox?

Believe it or not, the quality of many Harbor Freight products has improved over the past 15 years or so, to the point where their tool boxes are pretty good. Better than anything you will find at Home Depot or Lowes.

If you have deep pockets, SnapOn/Mac/Matco is still out there too.

 

[seaken]

Yes, SnapOn is good. I will check again at Harbor Freight but the last time I was in there I was not impressed.

 

[seaken]

Yes, I found out that my OLED in my Sony Bravia 55" is made by LG. It's a very nice display. The rest is Google TV as implemented by Sony.

Seaken

 

[Eudimorphodon]

New technology takes time to perfect and get volume production. I still remember the guaratees you got when purching a new small panel low resolution (by todays standards) LCD monitor as how many dead pixels there were and how many could be next to each other. When is the last time you got a TV or monitor with ANY dead pixels?

Something that's almost a letdown since about 2010 is how for a long time it was exciting to buy a new laptop computer because its display was almost always a substantial improvement over the last one. In the mid-1990's you had the choice of paying through the nose for a TFT display or settling for an absolutely miserable passive matrix/dual scan color; we sure thought those TFTs were pretty at the time, but really they were only good by comparison. (IE, they were sharp and at least the image wasn't literally swimming, so the colors being pretty muted didn't seem like that big of a deal.) By the turn of the century the non-TFT options were finally dead, but still... just as an example, I had through work an example of almost every PowerBook G4 model between its introduction and its replacement by the Intel Macbooks, and even between iterations of the same body style (the aluminum model they made between 2003 and 2006) the screens on the newest model would be obviously brighter with better colors than the previous one. Also vieing angle; even the best TFT panels from the 90's and early 'aughts need you to be looking at them straight on, with the brightness and color shifting dramatically just a few degrees off dead center. The rate of improvement started slowing down by the late 'aughts, to the point where if you have a *really good* panel from that period it might still compare fine with an "average" display today, but... yeah, today I'm pretty shocked when I run across a display in a "modern" device that looks even remotely as bad as a laptop from 2003.(*)

(* Some bottom of the barrel chromebooks, for instance, have pretty bad displays... by today's standards. Objectively they're still better than most of the first half of the 2000's had to offer.)

 

[Eudimorphodon]

And I STILL got burned after it stopped being supported only a couple of years later.

Android tablets are a nightmare; the ecosystem is just flat-out broken. I *like* having a tablet, but after getting burned repeatedly by the Android ecosystem (it doesn't matter how much you spend, you're going to get screwed; in fact, Samsung's attempts at "premium" tablets might actually be the worst in terms of support quality and lifespan) I sucked it up and took the Apple pill... and haven't regretted it. Just buy the $329 model they sell for education and revel in the mediocrity; at least Safari lets you install ad blockers.