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Is it wrong to hot-rod a Model T?

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hackerb9

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I'm curious what other people think of retrofitting retro-computers in ways that are permanent. Or, perhaps more accurately, where on the spectrum of permanent mods do people feel comfortable?

I remember when “macquariums” were cool that some people felt strongly that it was a waste of a computer that likely needed only minor repair. Personally, I'd never gut an original Macintosh like that. If I couldn't fix it, I'd pass it on to someone who could.

On the other hand, I have no problem modifying the exteriors of computers that are too common to be worth donating to a museum, but too ugly from yellowing to actually have out where I can see them regularly. For example, I've got a TRS-80 Tandy 200 8-bit "laptop" that I'm considering painting South of France Green, to go with the sea-green LCD screen. I feel no qualms at all.

But, what got me posting this question is a thought I had: My Tandy 200 has a perfectly working, but also perfectly useless, internal modem. I've read the system schematics and if I physically cut the traces to the modem chip, I could try adding an ESP8266 circuit which takes AT commands over serial and connects over WiFi. Now, this is definitely doing violence, or at least drastic surgery, to the original machine. It may end up destroying the modem for nothing if my project doesn't work. And even if it does work, thirty years from now WiFi will be obsolete, but the change will be irrevokable.

After some thought, I decided that I believe the highest purpose of these old computers is to be used, even if that means consuming them in the process. I'm adding the “Wireless Model T” to my long queue of retro projects. But, I'm curious what do other people feel?
 
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Make them useful to give them new life. That's what I say. It's your property, and what you do with is totally up to you, right?

Sounds like a cool project. And in 30 years, when our current wifi is obsolete, the modem will also still be obsolete, so no loss.. not like your going to revert to dial up. *Braces for impending semi-apocalypse to send us back 30 years*
 
It's your stuff, so do with it what you want!

That being said, if I still had all the old computer stuff that I got rid of back in the day, in stock condition, I could probably ebay it all and retire early! Then again, that stuff was from the days when computing was more diverse (I hate to use that word nowadays, but it seems to be the most fitting in this instance) and interesting, and the computer hadn't really become a ubiquitous mainstream appliance. I don't think that Windows 95-era and later stuff will get as valuable as old Amigas, 68k Macs, DEC stuff, etc have. There's just so much of it, and it's all so droll. And it's too complicated to really work on at a low level in an amateur setting, I mean like breaking out the soldering iron and such. It's the class of stuff that is just meant to be binned and replaced when it goes bad.

But then again, I remember when the iPhone first came out, I said "Why would anyone want a phone built into their PDA? That will never take off!" So I may not be the best judge of such things......

What I like to do, is try to push the old stuff to the maximum of its ability. Adding modern expansion hardware and such, and running more modern OS, etc, but keeping all modification completely reversible. I go to the trouble of imaging all the original media on a machine (even if there's nothing interesting on it) so that I can put it back *exactly* the way I found it, if I decide to.

I hate to drill a hole to mount a, say, ROM switch or whatever, but I'll do it if I have to. I think it's better to attach an external switch box with double-sided tape or something and run wires in somewhere in the back where the hole is a lot less obvious, though.
 
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I own a Tandy computer that looks like this:

irc.jpg

So I'm the wrong person to ask about preserving every single original specimen in a pristine state.

Regarding the idea of hacking the modem, according to the service manual page 4-13 the RS-232 signals are demultiplexed by ICs M22 and M23, if you don't want to cut traces you might be able to do something tricksy like desolder the pins going to the modem circuitry, isolate them from the pads, and run jumpers to your wifi device without cutting traces. That would technically make it possible to isolate the modem yet leave it reversible without having to jumper over a cut trace.

In any case it's probably not a big deal. There are other Model 200s out there.
 
Eudimorphodon said:
I own a Tandy computer that looks like this:

View attachment 61053

So I'm the wrong person to ask about preserving every single original specimen in a pristine state.

Regarding the idea of hacking the modem, according to the service manual page 4-13 the RS-232 signals are demultiplexed by ICs M22 and M23, if you don't want to cut traces you might be able to do something tricksy like desolder the pins going to the modem circuitry, isolate them from the pads, and run jumpers to your wifi device without cutting traces. That would technically make it possible to isolate the modem yet leave it reversible without having to jumper over a cut trace.

In any case it's probably not a big deal. There are other Model 200s out there.
Click to expand...

That pony sticker though...

Magnificent. Is that from the era?
 
KlaxMaster said:
That pony sticker though...
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I have little girls in my house, it's either ponies or Pokemon on *everything*. To my mind it works, though, because a Tandy 1000 is the sort of computer a kid might do their homework on and the sticker is very much something you'd find on a period-correct 80's Trapper Keeper. ;)

Magnificent. Is that from the era?
Click to expand...

Nah, I built it myself last year to hold a bare Tandy 1000 HX motherboard I was given to test the Tandy Plus expansion cards I was designing in. (Currently holds my latest prototype that adds a meg of EMS RAM along with everything else.) I subsequently love it more than the by-comparison "factory fresh" 1000 EX I started with and it's my daily driver retro machine. Just something special about building your own custom "ride" and I'd strongly recommend it to anyone that has junk lying around.

I'm not thrilled about gutting old machines to stuff gamer computers into them or stealing their keyboards (thus rendering the leftovers useless) because "CHERRY ALPS BUCKLING SPRINGS OMG!", but mods to enhance or otherwise get real use out of the actual old tech inside? Yeah, go nuts, within reason anyway.
 
If you look at the TRS-80 Model I, it had dozens of mods published. Dennis Bathory Kitsz wrote "The Custom TRS-80" back in 1982. Computer modifications kept a lot of hobbyists happy back then, and probably now, too. Why not on the Model T's?
 
hackerb9 said:
I'm curious what other people think of retrofitting retro-computers in ways that are permanent. Or, perhaps more accurately, where on the spectrum of permanent mods do people feel comfortable? But, I'm curious what do other people feel?
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Kind of complicated for me. Your last point is ringing true for me... If a modification is the difference between something being used or just collected, I feel it's perfectly ok to go ahead and modify it if you know what you're doing and not likely to damage it. That being said, I do see a lot of botched repairs and mods so I keep most of my things unmodified and try to avoid acquiring modified items...

If the modems on your system/motherboard I'de consider plugging the esp8266 into a serial port instead... if the modems an ISA expansion card, seems you could just toss that if it didn't work and not lose any sleep. I would feel gutted if the computer died as a result of the attempt anyway...
 
Eudimorphodon said:
I particularly enjoy actually going on the Internet with it. It's so utterly pointless yet the best ever at the same time. ;)So, yeah, that's totally a +1 for Wifi-equipping a Model 200.
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Awesome sentiment, Eudimorphodon,and of course, that *is* the BestComputer on the Internet.Thanks everyone for the encouragement.Someday, the Wireless Model-T willlive. For now, this message happilyposted from my "pristine", unmoddedTandy 200.
 
Go for it; as mentioned it should only involve a few easily reversed mods. You may have to patch the ROM as well if you want to be able to set the 'modem' to higher baud rates.
 
hackerb9 said:
After some thought, I decided that I believe the highest purpose of these old computers is to be used, even if that means consuming them in the process. I'm adding the “Wireless Model T” to my long queue of retro projects. But, I'm curious what do other people feel?
Click to expand...

Count me among the tweakers. In my younger days I colored within the lines, not because I didn't want to hot-rod my rig but because my chops were chop-suey and I needed the reliability. Case in point: a Model III Cassette I'm nearly finished with, shown below. It had a nice clean case, crisp video and a beautiful keyboard, but no FDC, drives or RS-232 board, and only 16K of RAM. So I bought a "beater" to rob for parts.

Turns out the beater was in better shape than anybody knew (the ugly was all on the outside, and where have we heard THAT before?), so I gave it the once over, donated the upper case from the M316K and one of the SSDD drives from my Model 4 and now it looks like new.

And the M316K? Well, I replaced the frozen pots with adapted ones I found at Digi-Key (the horror!), replaced the memory with 48K of Chinese 4116s (sacrilege!), fabricated a drive bay out of sheet aluminum, made a custom floppy cable and added a Gotek and a DSDD 5.25 from an IBM (unforgivable!), mounted a second PSU, 5 / 12 VDC only, and made a custom header to power the drives (is there no end?) and, as a final insult, added a 12V fan to the bottom of the case. And a rattle-can finish to the beat-up case.

So, yeah, I appreciate the beauty and the integrity of the OEM machines. But once in a while it's okay to roll your own.

-CH-

Frank.JPG


And if you think this is sacrilege, wait till you see what I'm doing with my 1974 Yamaha RD-350A...
 
The problem I have with modifications is is it's a really rare model or perfectly working. If the insides are junk, or in your case the modem is useless, go for it. But when I see people cutting up PETs to fit ATX motherboards or destroying or splitting up really rare machines (keyboard or keycap scalpers mainly), that really pisses me off. Just a couple little ease of use upgrades or turning something useless into something functional, go for it!
 
I personally don't "hot rod" anything as I prefer to experience the computer as it was sold in it's era. I will also try to buy period correct parts, if possible, to repair an aging computer. Things like caps will be new but if it's the caps in an Altair 8800, I will try to make it functional but look as original as possible. I will acquire reversible add-ons to also experience those but I don't need a computer from 1980 to do everything I need it to do today. It's really a matter of preference.
 
I think I'm in agreement with most everyone else.

1) If it's yours, you can do pretty much whatever you want with it.

2) It's better to be used then to sit in a garage.

3) Most of these computers aren't rare. Usually we're talking about Apple II's, C64s, Mass produced Pc's, etc. If we're talking about something rare, then it would be nice to not mod it, but honestly... most everything a lot of us own are already in museums places. If one wants to see a machine as it originally was, that's always an option.

4) Early PC's were geared to enthusiasts and moders. That's what we love about them.

5) In the case of this machine, it's pretty common. As well, modems are never coming back. If it was a serial port, that has a lot of uses, but as a standalone modem, Meh... Sure, a wifi modem might not last the test of time either, but it's a useful upgrade and in 30 years, you (or the next guy) can mod that part again if they like.

All that said, if you're modding them to turn them into fish tanks, maybe lets not. But if you're modding them to improve the experience of using it, sure. In somewhat related to your post, a year or so ago I modded my Atari ST to add a case drive switch on the back that lets me switch the internal/external address lines. It's also a temporary mod because in a few years, 'real' floppy disk drives won't be used due to lack of media and that internal drive won't have a purpose any longer (like your modem). The idea in my case was to let me use a gotek externally as drive 1 though, and preserve the internal floppy in place. Of course, it failed miserably when that mod didn't end up working as it should, so there was that. But in any case, I had little qualms about adding a switch to the back of a Atari ST which did involve drilling a hole in the case. Somewhat related, I would rather see a nice clean case mod then someone who was so paranoid about it that they just have random wires hanging out of their machines in order to avoid it on the off chance they might want to reverse their mods one day. At the end of the day, refer back to point #1. :)
 
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