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Is our hobby starting to decline a bit?
- Thread starter falter
- Start date
NeXT
Veteran Member
It's capable of displaying at least two different shades of grey by manipulating the placement of pixels on the screen.
krebizfan
Veteran Member
I could produce many distinct colors set through dithering on an EGA. Strangely enough, no one wanted to count that as large numbers of colors to compete with the IIgs or Amiga.
commodorejohn
Veteran Member
Yup. Unless you're doing some kind of filtering like some of the HP PA-RISC workstations offered, dithering is not the same thing as additional shades.
This also reminds me of the Sept 1988 price increases on Macs. The list price of floppy only Mac IIs (without monitor or video card) was raised from $3769 to $4869. In January 1989, Apple released the SE/30 at a base (floppy only) list price of $4369, but that only includes the built-in mono 512x342 display. In March 1989, Apple released the IIcx, but the list price of the floppy only one (without monitor or video card) was still $4669. It was not until October 1990 that they released the LC and IIsi.
krebizfan
Veteran Member
RAM prices doubled between 1987 and 1988 and doubled again by 1990. That killed a lot of cheaper systems and slowed the adoption of fancier operating systems.
Yea, I'm well aware of the DRAM shortage in 1988. But I think DRAM prices was falling by 1989-1990. This also reminds me of the Apple IIgs story. Just before this DRAM shortage hit, Apple started bundling memory cards with all IIgs machines that had eight 256K DRAM chips preinstalled on the card. Back then the list price of this card was $129. With the Sept 1988 price increase, the price of the IIgs was raised by $150 and the memory card was raised by $100.
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Dell was one of the vendors that did this I think.
I also should mention another story. Back in late 1987, the typical spot price for 1Mbit DRAM was about $30 per chip. In late 1987, Apple reduced the list price of their 2x1MB SIMM upgrade to about $600. With educational discounts, this was sometimes selling for about $450. Of course, a shortage of them developed before the actual DRAM shortage hit in 1988.
Just before the shortage hit in 1988, Apple released A/UX 1.0. During the DRAM shortage, people sometimes bought Mac II systems with A/UX preinstalled just for the 4MB of RAM that they had.
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sev
Experienced Member
This.
I am just happy that people embrace the hobby, and I, for one, love 8 bit guy. I find him to be humble and his content to be interesting.
sev
Experienced Member
What's worth collecting is what is interesting to you.
Like the guy that collects capture cards. It's whatever gives you that feeling of nostalgia. It's different for everyone. I dont give much of a crap about DEC PDP's because I am too young at 35 to have any connection to one.. Maybe someone older than me does.
What's interesting to me is the stuff I didn't have as a kid. Amiga's, C64s, etc. Also the rare PC stuff that I heard of but never touched. E.g. Make-It 486. A 286-486 upgrade chip, is my most recent find, satisfying a 10+ year search.
In short, I think different cohorts have different things they like to collect.
sev
Experienced Member
Again, who cares?
Collect what you find interesting. Why do you care if someone finds nostalgia in a Pentium II?
Also i think the point of Vogons is vintage PC gaming. Most of it anyway...
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glitch
Veteran Member
I kinda like that people want Pentium 2 machines now -- it means mine get bought by someone else instead of going to the recycle center 
inotarobot
Veteran Member
Dinner for 2 at a 'CHAIN restaurant' ???? Do you mean Prison ? Thats the only place I have heard of 'chain Gang's', so I wonder if the 'price' you mentioned is 'stealing' :grab: it from it prior owner ?? :withstupid:
Do forgive my Aussie attempt at humor ..:OT::killcomputer:
inotarobot
Veteran Member
Interesting Post. Ok I will put my Aussie spin on it.
Its like many hobbies, what people collect is born from their childhood and type of schooling. In a very Black and White cut there are those whom use their hands and those that use their brains. Rare occasion there are the ones that can use both to full skill capacity.
I was bought up in time when 6800 was just being introduced by Motorola and bought a D2 kit to make. Mind you I was formally taught at both Trade school and then University. But cold reality, is I am not in this hobby to play games on machines; so my interests are not souping up a nondescript looking 'box'.
Hence why I prefer PDP8's, analog computer and machines that visually have a 'character' about them externally, as well as having some quality internally.
That's NOT to say there is anything wrong with doing souping, I read hear of some great work done in this area of the hobby. Each to their own as they say. And that why shortly,I will be having a huge purge of bits and machines, I have simply acquired (& on rare occasions bought).
I recently purchased, for $80, a very early Sirus computer with its own monitor, but NO keyboard (( help needed to locate one)), from a young man maybe 19yo, who had got it from a Flea Market, and had not asked seller for if they had unique keyboard it needs. Like most his age in his mind a keyboard is a keyboard and never gave it a thought that in the early days of computing, brands had dedicated matching peripherals, that could not always interchange/
I was thrilled to get this Sirus, seeing it condition and reasonable rarity.
I asked why he was selling it. Answer ' i need money' and I have a shed full of gaming consoles and like. Which I took to be his main computer focus.
He likes to tinker in electronics and computing yet he just has never been in the position to be taught or understand how to trouble shoot and fix, a machine as old as this Sirius that is not booting of its internal HD. So easier to sell it and get something he has skill in using and repairing, that his friends may spend serious $'s buying from him.
Well I mentioned to his mum, that I felt bad about buying it from him, especially at such a low $, and that he should be keeping it as it is rare, and probably he will get a matching keyboard for it, given time. And in 10 to 20 year he will be glad he did keep it. Her reply "thanks for caring like that, but it not in his mindset to restore it & keep it as a major jewel in his collecting, so if you don't get it, someone else will buy it cheap, or it will go to rubbish"
Its like many hobbies, what people collect is born from their childhood and type of schooling. In a very Black and White cut there are those whom use their hands and those that use their brains. Rare occasion there are the ones that can use both to full skill capacity.
I was bought up in time when 6800 was just being introduced by Motorola and bought a D2 kit to make. Mind you I was formally taught at both Trade school and then University. But cold reality, is I am not in this hobby to play games on machines; so my interests are not souping up a nondescript looking 'box'.
Hence why I prefer PDP8's, analog computer and machines that visually have a 'character' about them externally, as well as having some quality internally.
That's NOT to say there is anything wrong with doing souping, I read hear of some great work done in this area of the hobby. Each to their own as they say. And that why shortly,I will be having a huge purge of bits and machines, I have simply acquired (& on rare occasions bought).
I recently purchased, for $80, a very early Sirus computer with its own monitor, but NO keyboard (( help needed to locate one)), from a young man maybe 19yo, who had got it from a Flea Market, and had not asked seller for if they had unique keyboard it needs. Like most his age in his mind a keyboard is a keyboard and never gave it a thought that in the early days of computing, brands had dedicated matching peripherals, that could not always interchange/
I was thrilled to get this Sirus, seeing it condition and reasonable rarity.
I asked why he was selling it. Answer ' i need money' and I have a shed full of gaming consoles and like. Which I took to be his main computer focus.
He likes to tinker in electronics and computing yet he just has never been in the position to be taught or understand how to trouble shoot and fix, a machine as old as this Sirius that is not booting of its internal HD. So easier to sell it and get something he has skill in using and repairing, that his friends may spend serious $'s buying from him.
Well I mentioned to his mum, that I felt bad about buying it from him, especially at such a low $, and that he should be keeping it as it is rare, and probably he will get a matching keyboard for it, given time. And in 10 to 20 year he will be glad he did keep it. Her reply "thanks for caring like that, but it not in his mindset to restore it & keep it as a major jewel in his collecting, so if you don't get it, someone else will buy it cheap, or it will go to rubbish"
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NeXT
Veteran Member
Actually, I'm gonna flex on what I said before.
The hobby is dying, but not because people are no longer buying or trading machines.
They are, but it's people who mainly don't know what they are doing, short of trying "retrocomputing" (that word drives me so goddamn nuts) like all the people they see on the internet. The people who actually DO things with the hardware or actually can be put in front of it and make it do something without having to resort to google are dying off. Sorry Mbbrutman, you aren't in your 30's anymore.
They'll spend crazy amounts of money on a machine or two, sometimes from people like VintageComputerMuseum because they really have no idea what this stuff is valued at (but in the process prop them and similar rip-off companies who inflate prices), they'll get it at their door, they'll open it, they'll plug it in and oogle at it.
Then because they are inherently stupid they realize that stuff this old doesn't work out of the box or they were taken for a ride so badly their machine is incomplete, so they start looking through forums asking how to make it work. I'll use mac users because they're so easy to select from. Guy X buys a "classic macintosh Plus" for $200 because
How do I know those sane people are out there? Because they've helped me when my options were limited and I'm still very greatful for their support.
The hobby is dying, but not because people are no longer buying or trading machines.
They are, but it's people who mainly don't know what they are doing, short of trying "retrocomputing" (that word drives me so goddamn nuts) like all the people they see on the internet. The people who actually DO things with the hardware or actually can be put in front of it and make it do something without having to resort to google are dying off. Sorry Mbbrutman, you aren't in your 30's anymore.
They'll spend crazy amounts of money on a machine or two, sometimes from people like VintageComputerMuseum because they really have no idea what this stuff is valued at (but in the process prop them and similar rip-off companies who inflate prices), they'll get it at their door, they'll open it, they'll plug it in and oogle at it.
Then because they are inherently stupid they realize that stuff this old doesn't work out of the box or they were taken for a ride so badly their machine is incomplete, so they start looking through forums asking how to make it work. I'll use mac users because they're so easy to select from. Guy X buys a "classic macintosh Plus" for $200 because
...but he got it with only a mouse and no system disks, so now he has to somehow find a way to take any of the disk images online but he can't because 800k disks can only properly be made on another mac without expensive hardware. So either he can find someone to make him the disks, he can pay some snob of an ass online for a copy of the disks for $10, or he'll go to your usual mac forum and ask. Of course the forum has people equally as brain dead who say he needs to buy disk emulators or recap the analog board or reset the PMU....when all you needed was one sane guy to say "I'll send you a system disk for the price of shipping".
How do I know those sane people are out there? Because they've helped me when my options were limited and I'm still very greatful for their support.
inotarobot
Veteran Member
WRONG..... Babies are born EXPERTS of pooing out of their nappies all over you, or chucking up all over your best outfit, 2 minutes before you heading out of house to an important appointment. !!!
Nothing is dying, just changing. I am in the late 30's bracket mentioned earlier and as a result my interest doesn't go any earlier than the 5160 and Amstrad CPC I have in my shed.
Even then I only have nostalgia for the 5160 because we couldn't afford anything better when I was a child.
I love seeing the older iron in a museum but I wouldn't pay to acquire one.
Over at VOGONS there is plenty of interest in 286 (and much later) machines and I guess that's the direction things are heading.
Agree that there isn't as much scope for homebrew electronics with the later hardware.
There are some interesting sound/video cards at least, even if the machines themselves are generic.
On the software side, console software prices are only going up, and the most desirable boxed PC games (LucasArts, Sierra) seem to be appreciating slowly too.
Even then I only have nostalgia for the 5160 because we couldn't afford anything better when I was a child.
I love seeing the older iron in a museum but I wouldn't pay to acquire one.
Over at VOGONS there is plenty of interest in 286 (and much later) machines and I guess that's the direction things are heading.
Agree that there isn't as much scope for homebrew electronics with the later hardware.
There are some interesting sound/video cards at least, even if the machines themselves are generic.
On the software side, console software prices are only going up, and the most desirable boxed PC games (LucasArts, Sierra) seem to be appreciating slowly too.