I think the biggest problem is that HP supposedly didn't pass on the rights to the VAX version to VSI, so they can't legally make any licenses, or new releases for VAXen. It's still with HP(E).
However, the page https://vmssoftware.com/about/roadmap/ makes you start wonder. There it claims that VSI now provides prior version support of VMS also for VAXen.
Weird... Anyone know anything about this?
Short answer: They can if they want to, they just don't want to.
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/84UwD_jWVhU
In here, Robert A Brooks writes that VSI has VAX sources, but are not interested in making a VAX release.
VSI cannot make releases or issue Pair for HPE versions.
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Well, do you have any source for that claim? Because it has been very clearly stated at some places that they do not. It's not a question about having sources or not, but the lack of the legal right.
Unfortunately I cannot find references right now, but maybe someone else have such.
However, the VAX codebase is different from the Alpha/Itanium/x86-64 as well, which could be a technical problem.
But, with that announcement that they do provide support for VAX, it would seem as if they should have all the code needed to do the builds. And having the support should also mean they should have the legal right. Which is what got my curiosity going. But apart from that page, I have not seen any statement that contradicts the earlier statement that the VAX version was not included in the deal between HPE and VSI.
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/84UwD_jWVhU
In here, Robert A Brooks writes that VSI has VAX sources, but are not interested in making a VAX release.
VSI cannot make releases or issue Pair for HPE versions.
Thanks a lot. That does indeed clarify a couple of points that I haven't seen before (my feed of comp.os.vms dried up a few years ago, and I have not been trying to get it through Google).
So at least technically, VSI own the VAX code as well (and have it), and could in theory build a new version, release it, and then sell licenses for it. (That was news to me.)
And it appears that they are not able to issue licenses for any version built by HPE. (That I sort of had understood before.)
And obviously, VSI in general is not interested in working on getting a build for VAX done. It seems the latest announcements are that they will not even make 9.0 releases for Alpha or Itanium, even though that was previously in the plan. So they are really going fast for dropping work on anything non-x86-64.
Well, then we know where we stand, I guess.
VSI could do something, but it would require more work than they are willing to do.
HPE could issue a license, but it seems they are not willing to do that. And the last one they did had an expiration, which have now kicked in.
So we're stuck.
Ok, I am a bit confused about the VMS/VSI licensing issue.
The hobbyist license from HPE does not reference any particular release (like OpenVMS 7.3) but are listed as "Licenses below are for OpenVMS on VAX or Alpha" (quoted from below).
There is no version referenced (or checked as far as I can tell) in the license installation files. When I applied for the "last" HPE license I did not even tell HP what system or VMS version I was using.
So even if VSI did produce a brand spanking new VAX OpenVMS version, would their license not load on my poor old VLC box running OpenVMS 7.3?
If VSI did produce a new VAX OpenVMS version, could I ignore it and load the license on my current OpenVMS 7.3 installation?
Thoughts/ideas?
Don
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/84UwD_jWVhU
In here, Robert A Brooks writes that VSI has VAX sources, but are not interested in making a VAX release.
VSI cannot make releases or issue Pair for HPE versions.
Robert A. Brooks said:Nov 19, 2019, 6:43:09 PM
to
On 11/19/2019 9:52 AM, Hans Bachner wrote:
> And the probability that VSI will (be allowed to) issue licenses for
> DEC/CPQ/HP(E) versions of VMS is rather low imho.
The probability is exactly zero.
--
-- Rob
Robert A. Brooks said:Nov 20, 2019, 8:59:27 PM
to
On 11/20/2019 9:31 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> Perhaps HPe will turn over to VSI all VMS stuff they have, including the HP
> versions, which would include VAX and the hobbyist program.
We have the VAX sources, and could, if we wanted to, build
a VSI version of OpenVMS VAX.
We are not going to do that.
Period. End of discussion.
--
-- Rob
Robert A. Brooks said:Jul 21, 2020, 8:33:03 PM
to
On 7/21/2020 7:51 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
> HPE still owns VAX/VMS. VSI has no rights to VAX/VMS.
It's never pretty to see VSI-on-VSI violence, but I must disagree with my
esteemed colleague here.
Mike, we *do* have the rights (and the VAX master pack, including the
Emerald builds) to produce a VSI version of OpenVMS VAX.
We have chosen not to do that; we don't want Reagan to retire.
--
-- Rob
John Reagan said:Jul 17, 2020, 12:35:34 PM
to
On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 12:41:58 PM UTC-4, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <9513122f-5615-4d7c...@googlegroups.com>,
> Alice Wyan <fin...@gmail.comwrites:
>
> > If I understand the situation correctly, HPE is completely dropping
> > support for VAX VMS, but the rights haven't been transferred to VSI.
> > This means starting next year VMS on the VAX is essentially abandoned.
>
> Right. I can understand VSI having little interest in it; it surely
> couldn't be justified financially.
>
> > If HPE is no longer going to be making money out of it, what would be
> > stopping them from selling it/give the rights away to, say, a hobbyist
> > collective that could be set up to preserve this system?
>
> Nothing, except that they figure that it is not worth their time.
>
> > I guess there'd be quite a legal mess of rights behind the old code,
> > but...
>
> I'm sure that they have a lot of experience with that, and the situation
> wouldn't be that much different than Alpha or Itanium.
>
> > would it be a doable thing?
>
> Certainly.
>
I have said several times, to several people, in several forums: The day you ask me to starting making VAX compilers again is the day we'll start planning my retirement party. I ain't got no time for that stuff. The thought of the VAX VCG and PL/1 (much of the VCG is written in PL/1) is a hard NO. I will use my safeword on that one.