Kaypro 1 File Copy/transfer Issue

[xp0nentz]

Hello, I've been wanting to move a basic interpreter from my PC to my KAYPRO 1 using KERMIT, but a quarter way through the transfer and I get either a BDOS error or it says insufficient disk space which isn't the thing since I had more than enough storage on the disk. I have no idea on what's wrong since it also happens whenever I copy a file to it over 3-4 maybe 6 kilobytes. Is this a KayPro issue or is this just user error?

 

[durgadas311]

I have been experimenting with kermit on a Kaypro 2X (more-or-less the same as a "1") and see issues at 9600 baud. I don't see BDOS errors or disk space errors, but just transfer failures. My test case has been to "GET" an 8K file from PC to Kaypro, and it starts getting errors about 75% of the way through and usually fails before the end. I can "SEND" files from Kaypro to PC without any issues. I run C-Kermit on a Linux PC, and put it in "SERVER" mode and do all operations from the Kaypro. I am still investigating.

One thing to note is that there are three "flavors" of BDOS errors - which one are you getting? Also, what are you using on the PC and how are you doing the transfers (PC runs as "server"? or...?). And seeing the exact errors message will help narrow down where they come from. And the exact versions of software.

 

[xp0nentz]

I have been experimenting with kermit on a Kaypro 2X (more-or-less the same as a "1") and see issues at 9600 baud. I don't see BDOS errors or disk space errors, but just transfer failures. My test case has been to "GET" an 8K file from PC to Kaypro, and it starts getting errors about 75% of the way through and usually fails before the end. I can "SEND" files from Kaypro to PC without any issues. I run C-Kermit on a Linux PC, and put it in "SERVER" mode and do all operations from the Kaypro. I am still investigating.

One thing to note is that there are three "flavors" of BDOS errors - which one are you getting? Also, what are you using on the PC and how are you doing the transfers (PC runs as "server"? or...?). And seeing the exact errors message will help narrow down where they come from. And the exact versions of software.

I'm using tera term for the PC, the PC is sending the file over to the kaypro. The process usually errors around 75% done so more or less like yours. I think mine was at 4800 baud but I can try again just to make sure.

 

[durgadas311]

The problem I'm working may be different, although it is suspicious that it fails around 75%. In my case, it fails at around 75% of an 8K file, at 100 packets. The failure is tied to the number of packets.

I do see that Kermit-80 will print a message "?Disk full", although it does not differentiate between possible causes (might not strictly be disk space). If you see this in conjunction with a "Bdos Err On ..." message, then it could be that something else is going wrong on the diskette and the "?Disk full" is just Kermit-80 making assumptions. If you can determine at which point (how much has been downloaded) this fails, perhaps you can try to fill the disk other ways (using PIP to make copies of large files) and see if there is a bad spot on the disk. If this is the case, I suspect the BDOS error you see is "Bdos Err On A: Bad Sector", and that you are pressing RETURN there (telling CP/M to stumble ahead in spite of the error).

 

[Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen]

Hello, I've been wanting to move a basic interpreter from my PC to my KAYPRO 1 using KERMIT, but a quarter way through the transfer and I get either a BDOS error or it says insufficient disk space which isn't the thing since I had more than enough storage on the disk. I have no idea on what's wrong since it also happens whenever I copy a file to it over 3-4 maybe 6 kilobytes. Is this a KayPro issue or is this just user error?

BDOS errors are bad :-/ Could you provide more detail about what it complains about?

 

[xp0nentz]

If I can today, I'll send a photo of the error. It does give me ?disk full, and that also sometimes happens when I use PIP to copy stuff from A: to B: along with a bdos error sometimes. Bdos error is "BDOS: BAD SECTOR."

 

[xp0nentz]

Is it the disk?

 

[durgadas311]

Sounds like there is a bad spot on the disk. "?Disk full" is a Kermit-80 message, you should only see that if you are running Kermit. The "Bdos Err" messages come from CP/M (BDOS) and could happen any time. Unfortunately, all these messages can be vague at times. "Bad Sector" simply means that the read/write call to the BIOS returned an error. That is typically because of an error accessing the disk sector, but could be other things too. Is the "Bdos Err" calling out "A:" (source disk) or "B:" (destination)? When you get the "Bad Sector" error it should stop and wait for you to press a key. What key are you pressing?

The symptoms sound like a bad spot on the diskette somewhere in the middle, such that when you start to fill up the disk (or read all files from the source) you hit the bad spot and get the "Bad Sector" errors.

 

[xp0nentz]

Sounds like there is a bad spot on the disk. "?Disk full" is a Kermit-80 message, you should only see that if you are running Kermit. The "Bdos Err" messages come from CP/M (BDOS) and could happen any time. Unfortunately, all these messages can be vague at times. "Bad Sector" simply means that the read/write call to the BIOS returned an error. That is typically because of an error accessing the disk sector, but could be other things too. Is the "Bdos Err" calling out "A:" (source disk) or "B:" (destination)? When you get the "Bad Sector" error it should stop and wait for you to press a key. What key are you pressing?

The symptoms sound like a bad spot on the diskette somewhere in the middle, such that when you start to fill up the disk (or read all files from the source) you hit the bad spot and get the "Bad Sector" errors.

I have done a lot of formats to the disk after I got the first case of that error, it always returned a bad sector 8 (if I recall correctly), it repairs the sector and then whenever I do the KERMIT or the PIP copy again, same BDOS error and it gives bad sector 8 on the format program. This is the only empty disk I have with me right now so its my only option as of now.

 

[durgadas311]

I don't recall what DUTIL was capable of (like if it had a CHKDSK thing), but if the media is truly bad then you have to "map out" the bad sector(s), usually by allocating it/them to a file and make sure to never erase that file. If you know what track and sector is bad, then it's possible to compute the block number and make some attempt at creating a file that blocks it out.

 

[xp0nentz]

I don't recall what DUTIL was capable of (like if it had a CHKDSK thing), but if the media is truly bad then you have to "map out" the bad sector(s), usually by allocating it/them to a file and make sure to never erase that file. If you know what track and sector is bad, then it's possible to compute the block number and make some attempt at creating a file that blocks it out.

I used the KayPro Copy.COM program which allows blank disk formatting, it also tells you which sectors are bad, it said IIRC Sector 8. I can double check tomorrow if you'd like.

 

[durgadas311]

Note, there are 80 tracks on these diskettes (40 on each side), so "sector 8" must be within the context of one of those tracks - which tells us where on the disk the error occurred. However, that information is mostly academic without the tools to map-out that sector from use. You probably need to do what I am doing now: look for some 5" floppies in "new" condition and get those. Having only one work disk and no backups is not really practical, especially if the media is old and worn. I was lucky enough to find 3 unused floppies in my pile, and those are functioning for now. But I have a box of NOS DS,DD floppies on order (after making the mistake of trying DS,HD).

 

[xp0nentz]

Note, there are 80 tracks on these diskettes (40 on each side), so "sector 8" must be within the context of one of those tracks - which tells us where on the disk the error occurred. However, that information is mostly academic without the tools to map-out that sector from use. You probably need to do what I am doing now: look for some 5" floppies in "new" condition and get those. Having only one work disk and no backups is not really practical, especially if the media is old and worn. I was lucky enough to find 3 unused floppies in my pile, and those are functioning for now. But I have a box of NOS DS,DD floppies on order (after making the mistake of trying DS,HD).

My boot disk is alright to my knowledge, the issue is when I tried copying the file over to the empty disk in B: since the main disk IIRC doesn't have enough storage for the basic interpreter. I think my issue is in the empty disk I'm using since I think I saw a dent on it. I'll try purchasing some NOS DSDD disks, I can also make a copy of CP/M for the kaypro 1 if needed.

 

[xp0nentz]

I purchased a NOS 5.25 unformatted 10 disk pack. I'll make a backup of CP/M then attempt transferring a basic interpreter to one of the remaining disks.

 

[xp0nentz]

Here's some images using the current disk I have. The disk I'm using for booting has kermit on it, I'm not sure if it makes a difference that the kermit version was for the II.

 

[MikeI]

Maybe drop the baud rate even lower .. say 1200 baud?? I had some odd errors using UUCP a while back that got resolved by doing that.

 

[xp0nentz]

Maybe drop the baud rate even lower .. say 1200 baud?? I had some odd errors using UUCP a while back that got resolved by doing that.

I can give it a try, this was at 9600 baud, the last time I tried this was at 4800 baud with the same results, I also don't know if the bad track 04 sector 07 has anything to do with this since every time I reformat that specific disk it gives me that. I can give it a try though and see what happens.

 

[durgadas311]

This is all pointing to a bad spot on the disk. It has nothing to do with kermit or the baud. I assume you haven't received the new floppies yet.

The kermit I'm using on my 2X also says "Kaypro II" (and is 4.11). It's really just a quirk of the person that made the Kaypro version, the serial port on the Kaypro II/IV is the same as "Serial Data" port on the later models. There's no need for a different version - although there is an estimate of CPU speed compiled-in (2.5MHz on the II and 4MHZ on later), but so far I've not seen that causing any problem.

 

[xp0nentz]

This is all pointing to a bad spot on the disk. It has nothing to do with kermit or the baud. I assume you haven't received the new floppies yet.

The kermit I'm using on my 2X also says "Kaypro II" (and is 4.11). It's really just a quirk of the person that made the Kaypro version, the serial port on the Kaypro II/IV is the same as "Serial Data" port on the later models. There's no need for a different version - although there is an estimate of CPU speed compiled-in (2.5MHz on the II and 4MHZ on later), but so far I've not seen that causing any problem.

Great to know that this is a disk problem! Thank you for all the help, I really appreciate it. Yes, I haven't received the new floppies yet but when they arrive here I will test them on the kaypro.

 

[Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen]

This is all pointing to a bad spot on the disk. It has nothing to do with kermit or the baud. I assume you haven't received the new floppies yet.

The kermit I'm using on my 2X also says "Kaypro II" (and is 4.11). It's really just a quirk of the person that made the Kaypro version, the serial port on the Kaypro II/IV is the same as "Serial Data" port on the later models. There's no need for a different version - although there is an estimate of CPU speed compiled-in (2.5MHz on the II and 4MHZ on later), but so far I've not seen that causing any problem.

I agree. Back in the day we could get around it by making a "BLOCKS.BAD" file which explicitly pointed to the areas on disk that was bad, and then CP/M didn't try to use those (as they already belonged to a file). Could make a diskette last a little longer (they were really expensive in the beginning).