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MicroPDP-11 - some questions

Well, unfortunately but unsurprisingly the pictures turned out essentially unrecognizable, so text will have to suffice. I got it home and brought it in. The damage to the plastic enclosure is a bit more substantial than I'd thought (cracks here and there, bits of the vent grilles bent out of place, and the back plate is also missing,) and the plastic is quite grungy (I'll give it a cleaning this weekend,) but it's still structurally sound and will hold it just fine once I've got it back together, so it'll do for my purposes until such time as I spot a decent enclosure on eBay for a reasonable price.

The BA-23 box and the equipment within, on the other hand, look to be in marvelous shape. There's almost no dust build-up and definitely no corrosion; the worst damage is a bit of a bend in the I/O backplate where the CPU-card serial ports were; I think it got dropped on its back end and the serial-port card was shoved in, but the PCB itself seems perfectly fine; a pair of chewed-up gender-changers seem to have taken the brunt of it. Still crossing my fingers about the hard drive, though.

Anyway, the contents. The model number is 11E23-FD, so I guess it's some kind of 11/23. It's a pretty simple setup; only the top four slots are occupied. Slots 1, 3, and 4 have quad cards. The CPU card in slot 1 says M8189, "KDF11-BA 11/23 CPU W/NO ROM SET" according to this catalog. (On the other hand, mine does have a couple EPROMs in sockets along the side of the board.)

Immediately below it is the odd man out, a "CST CC3300" and the only non-DEC card in the bunch. This is the one that connects to that 50-pin ribbon-cable connector, and I have no idea what it is and can't find any information on it. It does sport a pair of AMD ICs, one of which is a 7901; from its datasheet, a "subscriber-line audio processing circuit" containing an ADC and a DAC for phone-signal output - so I guess this was used in some kind of telecom function. This is the one half card, in the AB section of slot 2.

Slot 3 has the RAM card, an M8067 which is half-populated; I see from elsewhere that this is 128KB. Is it possible to up this to 256KB simply by soldering in additional RAM? The ICs are "21-18470-01," which I can't seem to find much on. (Edit: evidently this is a DEC part number for 4164 DRAMs, and also I misunderstood - it's 128KW, or 256KB, when half-populated. Presumably it could then go up to 512KB, but can my current CPU card even address more than 256KB?)

Slot 4 has the disk controller, which is an M8639 and says "RQRX" on the board, though other sites say it's an "RQDX1."

The hard disk is an RD52A, which seems to be somewhere around 32MB.

I haven't plugged it in yet, because I wasn't sure if the power supplies in these things can be a danger this far removed from their date of manufacture. Would it be best to disconnect power from everything but the power switch on the front panel, and try switching it on to make sure that no smoke pours out?
 
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Does the pedestal stand have an actual part listing ? If you knew what the actual part number of the face was I bet you could find one cheap from the various resellers. I'd still like to find the rear piece myself.

To answer my own question and maybe help john in his search I found the following. I checked my front panel it does have the same part number stamped in it. You may be able to find individual parts you need searching these in google.

Copyright (c) Digital Equipment Corporation 1998. All rights reserved.

U.S. Area Information Center
QRL, Quick Reference List

Enclosure: BA23-A, 5.25 Inch Box Console Front 8 Slot Backplane

Updated: 09-APR-1998 Article Expiration Date: 27-MAY-2000

Part Description: DEC Part
Number:
_______________________________________________________________________
Backplane, Q22 Bus 8 Quad Slots H9278-A
Backplane/Signal Dist Panel 70-19986-00
Bezel, Front 74-27559-01
Cable Assy W/Switch, AC On/Off Power 70-20434-01
Cable, DC Power Drive 17-01356-02
Cable, Fan 70-20449-0D
Cable, Front Panel to Backplane 70-20451-1C
Control Panel, 4 Switch 70-22007-01
Control Panel, 6 Switch 70-22007-02
Door, Patch Panel Assy 70-19979-00
Fastner, Velcro *Round 90-09712-00
Fan, 4.5 Inch 10VDC 12-22271-01
Fan Speed Control Assy 70-22643-01
Label Set, 2 Button Front Panel Horizontal Mount 36-23314-09
Label Set, 4 Button Front Panel Vertical Mount OLD 36-21549-01
Label Set, 4 Button Front Panel Horizontal Mount OLD 36-21549-02
Label Set, 4 Button Front Panel Horizontal Mount NEW 36-23314-03
Label Set, 4 Button Front Panel Vertical Mount NEW 36-23314-04
Label Set, 4 Button Front Panel Country Kit NEW 70-21844-04
Label Set, 6 Button Front Panel Horizontal Mount 36-23314-05
Label Set, 6 Button Front Panel Vertical Mount 36-23314-06
Medallion, Micro/PDP11 74-28502-01
Medallion, MicroPDP 74-29910-02
Medallion, Upgrade MVAX II to III 74-37202-01
Medallion, VAXstation 3200� 74-29910-02
Power Cord, 3-18 SJT 125V 75 Inch 5-15P/22-6A 17-00083-09
Power Cord, 3-18 SJT 250V 75 Inch 6-15P/22-6A 17-00083-10
Power Supply *H7864-A 30-21749-01
Qbus Grant Continuity Card M9047-00
Switch, On/Off 12-21262-01
Wire Harness Assembly 17-01311-01
 
If it has a rear cover, I'm pretty sure with some careful cutting, it can be made into a frontispiece. I'll compare mine and let you know.

Those plastic cases absorb a surprising amount of "G" forces on impact. I've seen units boot up after literally falling off the back of trucks! [God bless UPS]

Yep - 11/23. Pay no attn. to the W/O ROM stuff.

Yeah, sounds like it was a Switch Board PBX control.

Powering is a little of a "hope and prey" moment. You'll need an 11/23 manual to look over for switch settings and general guidance.

Start your documentation collection by downloading these:


Underloading the supplies [all cards removed] often makes the supply not start at all, so don't bother with that test.

Best thing to do is try a minimum card compliment. "CPU" only is usually ok. Best thing is to pull the BA-23 from the pedestal entirely, and set it on the bench horizontally. I'd pull the top cover from the front bay so you can examine how the cables are run and look for damage / dislocated connectors. Un-power the drives too for the first powerups, so removing the cover will give you easy access.

Next you'll need to make as sure as you can that the CPU Cabinet kit is undamaged. Those gender changers are probably also "null modem" as well. If they're not serviceable, you may need to come up with an RS-232 cable that's null modem to replace them. Simple 3 wire cable should suffice, 4 if you want to tie the chassis. Full cables won't hurt. The SLUs are DTE pinout - BTW.

Too bad about the camera. You'll really be wishing you had a way to record "how it was".

If it were me, I'd pull the CST card, and leave it out. [Keep it's cabinet kit with it] Relocate the other cards up toward the CPU once things are tested minimally and you're ready to graduate [pull em all for initial testing]. The CPU can run in slot 2 [1 empty] however, it's not customary. If it is a PBX system, the OS is probably a UNIX variation. You may want to back up that hard drive before doing anything, so leave it out of your plans for a while.

Anyway, a PC serial port with a Windows Hyperterminal session will get you going to test for minimal function. The CPU will go to ODT without memory present, which should cause a prompt on the Console terminal SLU. You'll also want to be able to observe the push buttons on the front panel that also says "MicroPDP-11" where the power switch is. Tell us how many you have there and what they say.

A word of warning - When I powered my older BA-23 for the first time in 15 yrs, it worked fine. Then a 1/2 hr or so later, after I'd shut it down - it belched out a lot of smoke and had to be unplugged for it to stop. Turned out to be a minor filter capacitor meltdown in the AC line filter module. But it would have caused a fire if I hadn't interceded because there's no fuse between it and the line - so be sure to plug yours in through an outlet strip with a breaker.

Post again and we'll see what's next. You may have other questions before then anyway. Best thing to do is take your time, RTFM and proceed when you understand each phase. You don't want to burn it down with a mistake.

Congratulations. If you were nearby I'd have been happy to help out "in person", but Minnesota's not close enough to Ohio for that.
 
No rear cover either, I'm afraid. Ah well, I'm not going for looks at the moment.

Pity about the camera, indeed (been meaning to buy a half-decent digital camera for months now, but I've yet to get around to it,) but I did at least take notes on what went where and which way round it went, so hopefully I shouldn't lose track so easily.

Yeah, I've got the BA-23 out and opened at the moment, figured I'd leave it that way until I have it actually working. I'll go ahead and take the CST card out. Not like I plan on starting a phone company out of my apartment ;) I'll do some power-supply tests in the morning.

The front panel is a four-button model; unfortunately, the nameplate went with the front fascia, so I don't know what exactly it says. It's got green LEDs between the buttons and the power switch (for Run and DC OK, if I'm reading the Systems Guide correctly,) and it's got the two-switch DIP array like the figure there, but it's also got two red LEDs on the "bottom" (left) side of the board. I recall from some site that these are disk-activity indicators, but I'm not 100% certain. Should be enough to go on, at any rate.

I've got a terminal and a proper full null-modem cable on hand, so no worries there. Aside from the baud rate and DTE, any idea what I should set the other serial settings to?

Definitely noted about the power strip. Thanks for the tip.
 
...The front panel is a four-button model; unfortunately, the nameplate went with the front fascia, so I don't know what exactly it says. It's got green LEDs between the buttons and the power switch (for Run and DC OK, if I'm reading the Systems Guide correctly,) and it's got the two-switch DIP array like the figure there, but it's also got two red LEDs on the "bottom" (left) side of the board. I recall from some site that these are disk-activity indicators, but I'm not 100% certain. Should be enough to go on, at any rate.

Have a look through this thread. Lots of views and discussion of the control panel.


I've got a terminal and a proper full null-modem cable on hand, so no worries there. Aside from the baud rate and DTE, any idea what I should set the other serial settings to?
9600,N,8,1 works. Of course you'll have to set the speed switches on the CPU Cabinet kit correctly.
 
Okay, the control panel, with regard to the positions of buttons and LEDs, looks exactly like the one in that thread, though the buttons are white instead of black.

Already set the baud rate on the rotary switches, though I suppose I'll have to check and make sure the jumpers aren't set to override that.
 
If you've eyeballed the CPU and it doesn't looked damaged, you're probably ready for a dance.

Time to see if you get a prompt. Just turn it on ought to do it. Hit RETURN a couple times to see if the prompt re-issues.

Don't tempt fate and leave it powered or plugged in too long.

I'll check in here tomorrow to see how you made out.


Good luck.
 
Well, to my pleasant surprise, everything went off without a hitch. Took everything but the CPU out and disconnected the drives, crossed my fingers, and powered 'er on - no smoke, but all four error LEDs were on. Hooked up the terminal, and it was just complaining about having no memory (picky, picky...) (It claims the CPU card is actually a KDF11B-BE.) Memory went in and worked fine, or at least passed the initial test (have yet to run the long diagnostic.) The CST card caused an issue where it left the system hanging while (according to the LEDs) it waited for the terminal to be ready, but I'm not sure if that's because I put it in slot 3 instead of slot 2 (below the memory instead of above.) Anyway, I left it out for now. The disk controller was annoyingly difficult to get in (one lever always seems to want to shove it in at an angle to the backplane,) but once it was in it booted without issue. It's running RT-11XM 5.01B.

So now I've just gotta learn my way around RT-11, I guess. Is there any equivalent to the DOS /P switch (or ls | more) for RT-11's DIR command?

Oh, also, it doesn't seem to like the backspace key on my terminal (prints it as ^H,) even though it's set to VT-100 emulation...should I try an earlier DEC terminal?
 
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Congrats!

I still suggest you back up that drive [to a PC file] before you get too far. Well worth the investment of time.

RT is probably a good system for that size drive. You could fit RSX on it, but it's too small for a sysgen of the latest version. You could run one as old as ~1984 BTW.

I'm gonna hand you over to one of the RT guys. They'll be able to help you more directly with questions from here.


Finally, it's hard for me to estimate its value [market fluctuates] but you definitely made some money yesterday. I'd guess 5x to 10x as a minimum. Systems in "perfect" condition with complete enclosures might go even higher. Your mileage will vary.

It's possible there could still be a commercial value to that CST card and it's associated hardware / software. You'll need to find out precisely what it is first and do a little preparation. If you can, I'm sure you'll recover your investment.


:mrgreen:
 
Heh :) I'm not too worried about commercial value as I have no plans to sell this thing, but that's good to hear all the same. (And I suppose if I can find out what the CST card is, I can sell that off at any rate. Should I ask some of the DEC resellers online, perhaps? I don't think I'm going to piece it together by looking at it, aside from the ALUs it seems to be entirely 7400 logic ICs and PALs.)

Backup seems prudent; is there a tool to back up a hard drive over the serial port, or to an RX-50 disk (if I can read those on a PC?) Alternatively, I have an AT with an RLL or MFM controller (can't remember which, at the moment.) If I hooked the RD-52 up to that, any idea what the BIOS drive type would be? (Rather not go that route, though - by my calculations it'd take something like 24 floppies to transfer it to my newer PCs for safekeeping!)
 
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The best procedure would be to end up with an image of the drive in a single PC file [suitable for use with a PC based PDP-11 simulator] and some means of restoring it to an actual system.

There are quite a few paths. Most involve use a some sort of serial port transport technique.

John Wilson has written a brief description in his manual for E11, it's on page 16.

Another way is to create a backup via TU58 emulator. A TU58 drive is a DEC tape unit that communicates over serial port. [the second port on your CPU is usually set to this address] If you connect a PC running a TU58 Emulator, to that port, you'll be able to create a virtual tape backup. However, restoring it is a bit of an exercise, and usually involves multiple tape images for a disk your size.

Has anyone on the forums written a PDP-11 backup guide? Seems like a good project if not. There are bits and pieces of such spread over many threads.
 
Oy. Looking at the Ersatz-11 docs, it honestly looks like floppies are going to be my best bet; swaps are annoying, but considering that the data rate is 250 Kbps as opposed to 19.2 Kbps (let alone the serial-transfer overhead,) it's probably going to take a whole lot less time to accomplish that...except that for this, I'll need a program to dump the hard drive to floppy in < 400KB chunks.
 
Ok, if that's what you want. There should be something in RT for that.

However, I'd like to point out that with a Serial Transfer dump, you start it, and walk away. What does it matter if it takes an hour or a week? With floppies, you have to be there to cycle them, and you don't end up with something to store on your PC or a CR ROM, etc.

Up to you.
 
That's also true...huh.

In any case, I'm going to have to clean the RX-50, it left a nice little groove across the disk I tested in it (luckily not one with anything important.) Out of curiousity, if the hard disk is a PC-compatible standard, can the floppy drive be replaced with a PC drive?
 
Better plan is the cleaning.

There were a few of the TEAC 5.25" drives that were sold in both PCs as 1.2MB (HD) and in PDP-11s as RX-33's. They had to be specially jumpered for this duty. Unless you're lucky enough to have one of them, the answer so far as I know is "no".

EDIT: Oh - and if you do have an RQDX1 - I don't think it's RX-33 capable, and your RT-11 may not be either.
 
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Well, I got the drive cleaned and it's no longer abusing disks, but the FORMAT command seems to be missing, as does the DUMP command. 'Spect I'm going to have to find an RT-11 utility disk and copy those over...
 
Formatting RX50s... there's an old ghost issue from the past.

Probably easier to work a deal with someone on the forums here to send em disks to format for you.

I don't think the RX50 drive can do it. See this

Perhaps someone else on the forums will have better help for you on this topic.
 
Well, I'm going to try using PUTR to write some disk images I've obtained, if that works then I won't have to bother anybody to mail disks to me. But we'll see.
 
Do you have DSDD disks?

They say HD disks read unreliably on the RX50.

Keep us posted.
 
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