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model 16B hard drive?

H

harry

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
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310
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United Kingdom
I have been spending some time recently, to see if I can get my 16B working, as it has been stored away for too long not working!, I stripped, cleaned everything as you do, changed the floppy drive to one that now works, I swapped the 68000 memory board with a spare, and I can now boot the machine to trsdos 16, (or trsdos II using model 12 disk) What I would like to do is get the built in hard drive ( tandon TM 502) working or maybe swap it out, when the machine initially boots it gives an HT error, "Time out" for the HD. I can "esc+ break" to boot from floppy disk, and it appears to load and run ok. I have tried to FORMAT the HD via the floppy format program, but I always get "drive not ready" or " invalid drive," Is there a specific trs dos program, or some disk image of a program available, so I can try to low level format the HD (or as, the manual says .. initialise. it ) Until I can get the HD reconised there is little I can do.

...Harry
 
There are some images available in the model2archive that contain HD diagnostics

https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Diagnostics

Although, I have never tried the HD utilities with the type 4 controller found in the 16B. I'd be interested in your results.

TRSDOS-II format should be all you need to initialize the hard drive. Which version of TRSDOS-II are you using?

I think earlier versions required the initialization disk.

https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Tandy/26-4150%20-%20Hard%20Disk%20Initialization%20Diskette

Does the HD spin up?
 
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Hi Pete,
The HD spins up, I removed the 16B top cover, to watch the red led on the HD front plate, this comes on as it should, when it tries to access the drive,
I have tried using Format on the model 16 disk I have ...trsdos-II 4.1/trsdos-16 4.1 , and tried my model I2 disk trsdos-II 4.2 with same results. Tha drive sounds reasonably quiet compared to other older drives I have come across, but whether it is ok inside I am not sure, Just a thought? If I remove the drive, and check it out using my ibm xt ,can I assume it will still be ok to try again in the 16B after a low level format in the XT, nothing to loose? but may prove if the drive still reads/writes.

thanks Harry
 
I don't think formatting the HD in a PC will have any deleterious effects. Were you able to try running the HD diagnostics programs? I will try them tonight on my 6000 HD to see if they will be of help. I've only used them on a Model II and 16A with a Type 2 HDA. BTW, are you certain it is a TM502 and not a TM503? AFAIK, the 16B and 6000HD only used the 15MB TM503. The TM502 is a 10MB drive.
 
It may be simply a case of not understanding the controller like Pete said. Try booting Xenix and formatting the HD.

It is my experience that these drives are not very reliable. Other than being cheap, I cannot understand why Tandy went with this drive in the 16B. There were drives with a smaller form factor that held more information and used less power for about the same price available at the time.
 
kb2syd said:
... Other than being cheap, I cannot understand why Tandy went with this drive in the 16B. There were drives with a smaller form factor that held more information and used less power for about the same price available at the time.
Click to expand...

This article in the Google Groups archive of comp.sys.tandy can kindof give you some information on what was going on in those days. The scuttlebutt is that some folks in Tandy and Tandon's founder, Jugi Tandon, had a deal going and a joint venture in TPI and so Tandon drives were much preferred. Tandon did allow for what Radio Shack wanted, though, in the ability to write-protect the hard disk with a switch.
 
pski said:
I don't think formatting the HD in a PC will have any deleterious effects. Were you able to try running the HD diagnostics programs? I will try them tonight on my 6000 HD to see if they will be of help. I've only used them on a Model II and 16A with a Type 2 HDA. BTW, are you certain it is a TM502 and not a TM503? AFAIK, the 16B and 6000HD only used the 15MB TM503. The TM502 is a 10MB drive.
Click to expand...

Hi Pete, Tonight I removed the tandon hard drive, and yes it is of course a tm 503, I used my 386 workhorse with its megatrends bios which allows me to enter the HD config. and I then tried a low level format, I then tried using seagate disk manager diags but it seems I am stuck with a door stop, nothing I do can get a response, All that happens is the red led on the drive stays permantly on, but nothing else. I quess I can replace this HD with something else MFM but am I restricted to 15MB, or can I use a 20MB drive?
At the moment I don't have the set up, or another spare thinline 8" d/s drive to write images to 8" floppies, but I am working on it , I can then hopefully make some disks using the images from your excellent archives, including Xenix, as noted.

.....Harry
 
Cool. Harry, the DIAGNOST.IMD contains exactly what you need, the Model 16B Hard Disk Test Utility. Just type "HD" at the TRSDOS READY prompt.

I did not try any because they all look fairly destructive. :)

IMG_1193.jpg
 
Hi Pete, Thanks for help on this, I will now see what I can find to install as a replacement HD, Looks I need to get the DIAGNOST.IMD put on to disk, thanks for pic. of the files on that program. I will report on my progress shortly.
thanks

Harry
 
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