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My Pentium I Build Thread

DeltaDon said:
My major issue, at the moment, is that I can't get the hard drive to format a partition larger than 2GB.
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MS-DOS 6.22 and older use FAT16, which has a partition size limit of 2 GB. If your drive is larger than 2 GB, you have to create logical partitions to use the extra space, 2 GB at a time.

If you don't want this limitation, your only choice is to use FreeDOS, which supports FAT32 and allows for partition sizes over 2 GB.

Some other late DOS operating systems, like PC-DOS 7.1 support FAT32, but that was IBMs proprietary internal version for embedded stuff.
 
I'm aware of FAT16's limitations. I believe I said I screwed up and was using a DOS 6 boot disk when I thought I was using a Windows 98 start disk. I changed the disk for the correct one and loaded Windows 98 to the hard drive and tried to convert the disk to FAT32 and it failed at the step to reboot so it could convert to FAT32. I noticed that shutdown and reboot isn't working, in general. I've on;y seen this in the past with Windows ME. So I'm stuck with a single 2GB partition and FDISK doesn't seem to want to allow me to make a non-primary partition.

The good news it that my second IDE cable came in and I have two optical drives on the second IDE channel plus the CF on the first one. Plus a 3.5" and the 1.2MB floppy drives and all is well with them.

I really need to find the missing box that has most of my Windows 98 and ME CD disks and misc. boot related 3.5" diskettes with Ontrack and some other BIOS drive overwriting software. I used these on a daily basis 20 years ago. I can't for the life of me figure out where I put it. Too much stuff and not enough brain cells as I age, next year it will be the big 80. I did uncover my old Microsoft TechNet CD/DVD's that I haven't looked at in that many years.
 
Quick update, I dug out a 32GB micro SD card, stuck it into a micro to SD adapter and then formatted it on my PC and used Rufus to load FreeDOS onto the drive. Erase FreeDos and loaded the contends of a Windows 98SE diskette into a folder on the drive. Loaded the SD card into a SD to CF adapter (adapter in an adapter) and booted my DOS machine from drive A:. I then switched to drive C: (the SD card) and ran SETUP. to install Windows 98SE onto drive C: (the SD card) and prayed that it would work. Upon reboot Windows 98SE reported an issue with the files, attempted to repair them and crashed. So I'm giving up on using the CF card adapter for now. I had hoped to be able to swap CF cards for different configurations, but maybe later. I need to order a 3.5" to USB adapter and do the same process with my 40GB 3.5" hard drive and just finish the project.
 
DeltaDon said:
and used Rufus to load FreeDOS onto the drive.
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This is your problem: FreeDOS and win98 are not compatible. You can't install win98 on a disk after its had FreeDOS.

You need a SiliconDrive WD PATA COMPACT FLASH CF CARD:


The computer will "see" this EXACTLY like a spinning hard disk. Once you've created a basic bootable partition, use win32 disk image to pull an image file from it. You can then write that image file to damn near any CF card and use a partition editor to expand it to the necessary size.

I did this ROUTINELY turning a 1-2gb partition into a 64gb for my flagship win98 system. I actually never encountered a CF card I couldn't make work using this method.
 
I've loaded a half dozen CF cards with DOS in the past and have no had problems with loading various forms of Windows loading. Rufus seems to format a CF card so that Windows doesn't complain that the CF is a portable device. I got lazy this time and didn't dig out a copy of MS-DOS iso for Rufus to use, but didn't think a formatted blank CF card that had had FreeDos installed and then deleted would be an issue. That's what happens when it is past midnight and just want to get things done. After I get home after the 4th I'll try again.
 
DeltaDon said:
I've loaded a half dozen CF cards with DOS in the past and have no had problems
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Then use win32 disk imager to backup/restore partitions and MiniTools Partition Wizard to re-size as needed. Once you get in to this workflow you will never have a problem. The issue as near as I can tell is that some OSes don't like to format some CF cards. But if you just flash a working paritition on there and re-size it, you never have a problem.
 
I decided to just installed the 40GB hard drive once again and loaded Windows 98SE onto the drive from a MS CD. After installing 98 I converted the drive to FAT32. Everything appeared correct and was booting directly to Win98 at this point. I then thought I'd try using my very old copy of Partition Magic (version 3) to increase the partition size. All went well with installing PM until P.M. rebooted the computer in DOS while it was preparing to do it's thing. It said that it may take a few minutes to analyze the drive and after 45 minutes I shut it down. Ran out of time and patience.

I also dug up a Shugart SA455 360K drive out of my stash, but ran into a problem installing it. It seems just about any crazy issue that can occur has happened. The latest problem is that my floppy drive cable has the bar installed so the cable can't be installed incorrectly. The drive's connector does not have the notch between the pins. So I either need to cut a notch or purchase a 34 pin connector without the protection bar.
 
DeltaDon said:
After installing 98 I converted the drive to FAT32.
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If you planned to run win98se in the first place, why did you format the drive to anything at all besides fat32? I don't understand why you're doing filesystem conversions on a fresh drive. That's like painting a canvas black, then painting over it in white until you can't see the black anymore, then doing your actual painting. A completely pointless first step that only slows you down and complicates your project.
 
A case of which comes first the chicken or the egg. None of my Windows 98SE CD's are bootable. I need to boot to load Windows onto the hard drive. The only way I know of doing so is to boot to DOS from diskette and to then use the CD-ROM drive to load Windows 98SE.
 
Use a Windows 98SE Boot Disk, not vanilla DOS. The former will have DOS 7.x, FAT32 support and FDISK/Format that supports large drives, so you don't have to use sketchy conversion and resize utilities that never work right.
 
I used PartitionMagic often back in the day. Never had an issue, but it is very slow with hardware from that era, especially mechanical hard drives. Several hours for a large partition resize is not unusual.

But I agree it's better to just skip that step if possible and start with a FAT32 partition of the desired size.
 
I wish I had a Win98 install disk, but I only had a Win95 diskette. The reason in wanting to make this machine is so that I can make floppy diskettes such as a Win98 boot disk and also disks for my many CP/M machines. I did make a Win98 recovery disk as soon as I got 98 running, but that did not have FDisk on it. I do not have any PC's with floppy disk drives other than this system and so once again it is which comes first - a computer that I can make diskettes or having the diskettes I need to make the computer.

My Partition Magic is Version 3 and claims to support Win 3.0, OS2 and Windows 95 and also supported FAT32. I didn't think Windows 98 differed very much from Windows 95 and tried it in case it would work. I've got some work to do yet with trying to make a full Win98 boot disk. I also thought about adding the 3.5" hard drive via USB to my Windows 11 mini computer, but then again I've need an external hard drive module to power it up and provide the USB interface. Again lacking in my hoard of hardware. I have a half ton of 2.5" external hard drive adapters, but none for 3.5" drives. I'll get there, but slowly. Ditto with getting the Shugart drive installed, just needs time or hardware to solve. It's been decades since I worked with anything other than laptops repair and didn't hang onto boot disks and a bunch of other stuff for DOS era PC's.
 
DeltaDon said:
A case of which comes first the chicken or the egg. None of my Windows 98SE CD's are bootable. I need to boot to load Windows onto the hard drive. The only way I know of doing so is to boot to DOS from diskette and to then use the CD-ROM drive to load Windows 98SE.
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So archive.org and a CD burner don't exist in your world? Or just a regular windows 98 boot floppy?
 
I'm sorry if my efforts don't meet your level of expertise and some how I offend you, but I'm working with what knowledge I retain from decades ago. Thanks for the detailed help on how to reach your level of knowledge and offer to help.
 
DeltaDon said:
I'm sorry if my efforts don't meet your level of expertise and some how I offend you, but I'm working with what knowledge I retain from decades ago. Thanks for the detailed help on how to reach your level of knowledge and offer to help.
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I personally use the pristine Windows 98 SE (English US if that matters) OEM CD-ROM I have from back then with sha256: 2adfb46df8a9c7bbd2f67bff07461cc2f9d9ec8e01f0e112cb044c9e3e62f607 (hint, hint...)
The way CD-ROM booting works in this era is that there is a hidden floppy disk image embedded in the CD-ROM. It's possible to extract it using 7-Zip:
7z x w98seoem.iso "[BOOT]/Boot-1.44M.img"
You could then rawrite (or WinImage) that floppy image to a real floppy. If you boot using that real floppy, it simulates the same experience CD-ROM boot would have if it were supported.
 
Try this:

winworldpc.com

Microsoft Windows Boot Disk 98 SE

These disks are original boot floppy disk media for use with Microsoft Windows CD-ROMs. Not all Windows 9x/ME CDs are bootable, not all CDs included boot disks, and DOS will not see a CD-ROM drive unless a driver is loaded. OEMs were expected to provide compatible CD-ROM with the boot media...
winworldpc.com
 
DeltaDon said:
I'm sorry if my efforts don't meet your level of expertise and some how I offend you, but I'm working with what knowledge I retain from decades ago. Thanks for the detailed help on how to reach your level of knowledge and offer to help.
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I do love the sarcasm, A+ there, but you also never asked "How can I prepare a drive to install windows 98 without needint to convert it from fat16 after?"

Grab this ISO off archive.org:

archive.org

Windows 98 SE FULL BOOTABLE RETAIL : ZapbuzZ : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This is a Bootable Retail Windows 98SE iso.Includes full CD boot setup support like the OEM edition with a changeable Retail CD Key included.Ideal for those...
archive.org

Burn it to a disk. Its bootable, you can do all your prep there and have a loverly fat32 partiton.

Alternatively:

archive.org

Windows 98 Second Edition Boot Disk Floppy : Microsoft Inc. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

.IMG file for installing Windows 98.Feel free to use this for VirtualBox or VMware.Source: https://winworldpc.com/product/microsoft-windows-boot-disk/98-se
archive.org

Boot floppy image.

Alternatively Alternatively: if you want I can make you a small partition image pre-built with fat32/bootable/and the win98SE installer files already loaded. You can image that to your drive, use Partition Wizard to expand it as needed, and install from there.

People are often quite eager to help when you ask.
 
I need a computer with a floppy disk to make a boot disk which is exactly what I'm attempting to build. Plus I need to be able to turn an .img file into the finished product on a computer that needs to be built to do so and then also having to know that there's a program called Partition Wizard. All simple if you have vast knowledge offered without condescending non-help from people that would rather offer criticism than teach.
 
DeltaDon said:
I do not have any PC's with floppy disk drives other than this system and so once again it is which comes first - a computer that I can make diskettes or having the diskettes I need to make the computer.
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Get a USB floppy drive, they're still widely available.


The family of the guy that used to run www.bootdisk.com have kept it up in memory of him, which is amazing. So you can still get boot disks for Windows 98SE.

DeltaDon said:
I didn't think Windows 98 differed very much from Windows 95 and tried it in case it would work. I've got some work to do yet with trying to make a full Win98 boot disk.
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Only Windows 95 B and C (OSR 2 and OSR 2.5) supports FAT32 out of the box. The original RTM and A do not, and only support FAT16. So if you have an early Windows 95 boot disk, it won't support FAT32. It's best to just use a Windows 98SE boot disk so you don't have an added layer of problems.

DeltaDon said:
I also thought about adding the 3.5" hard drive via USB to my Windows 11 mini computer, but then again I've need an external hard drive module to power it up and provide the USB interface. Again lacking in my hoard of hardware. I have a half ton of 2.5" external hard drive adapters, but none for 3.5" drives.
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Those USB to IDE adapters tend to have problems with very old CHS hard drives, because the controller they use is very basic and very dumb. It also relies on OS support, more modern versions of Windows also tend to have problems with old drives.
 
DeltaDon said:
I need a computer with a floppy disk to make a boot disk which is exactly what I'm attempting to build. Plus I need to be able to turn an .img file into the finished product on a computer that needs to be built to do so and then also having to know that there's a program called Partition Wizard. All simple if you have vast knowledge offered without condescending non-help from people that would rather offer criticism than teach.
Click to expand...

If you need to write floppy images, use Winimage https://winimage.com/download.htm

Version 9.0 is the most compatible with older systems. Newer versions work on more modern versions of Windows.
 
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