(Nearly) Complete Kalok Octagon Lineup

[famicomaster2]

Found a KALOK 320 laying loose in an engine analyzer I bought. It was hooked to a WDXT-GEN card via two flat ribbon cables. My suspicion is that the drive contains the operating system for the engine analyzer and has either gone bad, never was used, or previous owner of the analyzer wasn't knowledgeable about such things. I am certainly not knowledgeable myself but want to hook it into the system and see what happens. From what you know, is the driver card the proper one? Thanks

Yes, the WD XT-GEN card should have no problem controlling a Kalok Octagon KL-320.

However, unless this is the EXACT original controller, you are unlikely to recover any information from the drive, even if it is working flawlessly. The data on the drive is tied to the control card, not the drive. These are not like "modern" IDE/SATA/USB stuff where they are plug and go. The drives are just a step above being mechanical only - That is to say, they do not operate on any data on their own. Your controller decides the number of bits on a track, the number of sectors, the encoding of the data, the size of the sectors, etc.

Make sure the drive does not have a short on either power rail. Later units used tantalum filter capacitors, which most often fail short and can sometimes start small fires. If all looks good, spin the drive up. If it was parked the last time it was used, you should hear exactly the same startup as in the video above your original post. If it was not parked, the drive will skip the initial slow seek (knocking after the disks spin up) and you will just hear the squeaks at the end. If you hear that, the drive is also likely "working." From there, you can power the drive off and connect the controller and hope for the best.

 

[dduesing]

I think I have tried everything with no luck. I am thinking of putting in a more modern hard drive but don't know how to get it to work with the old connections. Then I could download the programs I need to operate the engine analyzer and store them on a more reliable and newer drive. I have a couple of them that I could reformat and use for the purpose. Is there an adapter that would go from the pin out configuration on the KALOK to a SEAGATE Baracida 500GB drive?

 

[famicomaster2]

I think I have tried everything with no luck.

What error are you getting? What is it doing?

I am thinking of putting in a more modern hard drive but don't know how to get it to work with the old connections. Then I could download the programs I need to operate the engine analyzer and store them on a more reliable and newer drive. I have a couple of them that I could reformat and use for the purpose. Is there an adapter that would go from the pin out configuration on the KALOK to a SEAGATE Baracida 500GB drive?

Absolutely no chance. You're talking about bridging a 30 year gap. The Kalok Octagon KL-320 uses a fully analog control system, like a floppy drive. It's an evolution from ST-506, which evolved from SA-1000, which evolved from the Shugart floppy interface of the mid 1970s. Think of it like a really fast floppy drive. The controller doesn't say "Please give me sector x" like with a modern drive, it says "move 6 positions forward and turn on head #2."

You'll need to replace the controller with something else. This is a good application for a device like the XT-IDE, or just a regular IDE controller + a CF card if the machine has a 16-bit ISA slot free.

 

[ST251]

Nice collection you have there. I've been trying to find one of those Xebec-relabeled drives for a while.

Have you gotten your hands on a KL330 yet? I ask because I have one (in Kalok factory not working condition )

 

[dduesing]

Well, that answer can make my head spin faster than a floppy. First, how do I tell if I have a 16 bit ISA? I recently aquired an old PC thinking I could use it to download stuff off the internet that was available for my engine analyzer and load that into a different hard drive than the Kalok. I admit I am probably playing in amn area where I will need to be educated, but refuse to give up. The PC I got has plug in slots that have a much finer pitch that the slots on my engine analyzer, so cards that would plug into the analyzer and cards that would plug into the newer PC I got (for $4.50 from the swap meet) are not interchangeable. If there is a controller that will plug into the coarser pitch of the analyzer slots and let me add a newer type of hard drive that would be optimum. Here is a picture of the buss board that everything plugs into...including the plug in main processor board. (picture inluded also)

 

[famicomaster2]

Nice collection you have there. I've been trying to find one of those Xebec-relabeled drives for a while.

Have you gotten your hands on a KL330 yet? I ask because I have one (in Kalok factory not working condition )

I actually do not have a "real" KL-330, but I do have a KL-320 formatted as RLL with no bad blocks. Is that close enough?

I'd love to get my hands on a real one though, if you're looking to get rid of it. I'm always happy to give unwanted drives of this era a good home - Climate controlled smoke free shelves.

If you're looking for a Xebec version, I can probably track one down for you. I have friends who work in industrial settings and often remove/replace drives like this. No assurance about the condition, though.

 

[famicomaster2]

First, how do I tell if I have a 16 bit ISA?

Those slots sure look like 16-bit ISA. If you're running a WD XT-GEN before, then that probably indicates these are ISA slots. Doesn't look like you have a CPU anywhere though, unless there's an SBC laying around somewhere that you didn't picture.

To put it bluntly, what's inside that case is just a backplane, there is no computer there. The large "SUN" branded card you showed does have an 80186, but I am unsure if this is being used for running the machine or if it is just running whatever I/O that board happens to provide. At a glance, it doesn't look like there's any RAM to speak of on that board. Additionally, I'm pretty sure the "real" AT bus needs a 286, but I could be completely wrong about that.

The "finer pitch" may be PCI or EISA. If you Google around, you should see some photos about 8/16 bit ISA, VLB, EISA, PCI, AGP, PCIe, etc. Basically every slot you're likely to see is very well documented online.

If it's "real" 16-bit ISA, you could probably just go buy some random IDE host adapter off eBay and run a hard drive made between about 1994 and sometime in the early 2000s, with some exceptions regarding very large drives. An XT-IDE should work as well, but I'm no expert on that type of hardware. I collect and repair much older drives than those.

 

[ST251]

I actually do not have a "real" KL-330, but I do have a KL-320 formatted as RLL with no bad blocks. Is that close enough?

I'd love to get my hands on a real one though, if you're looking to get rid of it. I'm always happy to give unwanted drives of this era a good home - Climate controlled smoke free shelves.

If you're looking for a Xebec version, I can probably track one down for you. I have friends who work in industrial settings and often remove/replace drives like this. No assurance about the condition, though.

Sorry, my memory failed me. I just looked to make sure and it's only a KL320. I'd definitely appreciate it if you could find one of those Xebec drives though

 

[famicomaster2]

Sorry, my memory failed me. I just looked to make sure and it's only a KL320. I'd definitely appreciate it if you could find one of those Xebec drives though

I figured, the KL-330 was pretty uncommon. I've even met computer store owners from back in the day who stocked KL-320s and just formatted them as RLL anyways because they were easier to get in quantity.

I'll have an ask around later for ya!

 

[dduesing]

If you are interested in a Kalok 320 I know 0 for your collection I know where there is one destined for the dust bin.

 

[famicomaster2]

I am always interested in drives of this vintage. Functionality and cosmetics are not a requirement for me. I sent you a message.

 

[dduesing]

So, is there a magic card that I can plug into the buss I have, that will drive the Seagate drive I have? I have since begun to populate that buss card with other parts of the system. A printer dirver parallel card, a video driver card that would allow me to use a flatscreen monitor instead of the CRT that came with the analyzer, a floppy controller card, and a couple others.

 

[famicomaster2]

So, is there a magic card that I can plug into the buss I have, that will drive the Seagate drive I have? I have since begun to populate that buss card with other parts of the system. A printer dirver parallel card, a video driver card that would allow me to use a flatscreen monitor instead of the CRT that came with the analyzer, a floppy controller card, and a couple others.

No, I'm not aware of any 8- or 16-bit ISA card that will control a 500GB SATA drive. I have serious doubts that the BIOS this machine has would even natively talk to a drive greater than 500 *megabytes.*

Your best bet will probably be an XT-IDE, or an IDE host adapter and putting the XT-IDE extension BIOS on another card, like a network card. This might get you to 8.4GB.

 

[dduesing]

Good morning. I managed to get the floppy HD controller card on Ebay. So, the HD drive and the controller card will soon be on the way. In the mean time, I need to prepare to get programs downloaded from online and be able to copy them into the SUN MCA-3000. Originally, the MCA-3000 used floppies to start up the program that ran the IO's that let you analyze different car functions via test leads that connected to the engine of the car. This "computer" that is internal to the analyzer (the one I am getting the hard drive and controller for) would load the startup discs via the floppy drives into memory and allow a selection of functions for testing the car engine. It is my hope after speaking to others who own the same machine that I can load the startup program and the many data discs that support different car manufacturers, onto the hard drive and boot the system from there instead of feeding discs into the floppy drives. So here's the rub. The computer I am using to communicate with you is a new one that my grandson built for me. He is 17 and one of the whiz kids who likes gaming and flight simulation. Consequently, this computer is fast and loaded with memory more than I will ever use and it was relatively inexpensive to buy all the parts and build it ourselves. However, it can't IO to the MCA-3000. It has no data transfer technology that will match the older "computer" in the analyzer. So...at a flea market I purchased a PC for $4.50 that I plan to hook up to the internet, download files and save to floppy disc to be used to input some of the program used to start up the 3000. I borrowed a wireless keyboard and mouse from my wifes computer and plugged it in and this beat up old flea market computer came to life. I had an old flat screen monitor that I hooked up and all is good....except. It has a dial up modem on the motherboard. Dial up! Ugh. To complicate things further, the HD in this machine 97% full and is loaded with all kinds of junk including some porn videos that the PO had saved on it. What to do? The flea market PC is a Pentium 4 running windows. I guess I could get a wireless PCI adapter and get online that way? I would reformat the hard drive if I had my wishes, but doesn't that take a copy of Windows to do that? What a long-winded wandering I have put out here. I'm doing the early and then going to get your HD and controller card packed up. Did you want both of the WD controllers I have? I also have the controller ribbon cables that plug into the Kalok HD. Gladly will send it all your way in exchange for your most helpful advice. Do you have any experience with USPS and know if a flat rate box is the best way to ship to you?

I'd like to say I am sorry for the rambling, but I am finding this a lot of fun. Hope you can stick with me a little longer and see this project through. Many many thanks. Dennis

 

[dduesing]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176144413752
Here is what I am thinking of using on my flea market computer to get online. Will I need to disable the dial up feature on the motherboard somehow? Its kind of a catch 22 to buy this because I have no way to download the driver. Do you think I could save the driver to a thumb drive and use that to load it into the flea market computer? Are these wireless interfaces fairly bullet proof. It looks like the antenna has broken but has not come loose. What are the chances it will still work???

 

[NeXT]

Well, that answer can make my head spin faster than a floppy. First, how do I tell if I have a 16 bit ISA? I recently aquired an old PC thinking I could use it to download stuff off the internet that was available for my engine analyzer and load that into a different hard drive than the Kalok. I admit I am probably playing in amn area where I will need to be educated, but refuse to give up. The PC I got has plug in slots that have a much finer pitch that the slots on my engine analyzer, so cards that would plug into the analyzer and cards that would plug into the newer PC I got (for $4.50 from the swap meet) are not interchangeable. If there is a controller that will plug into the coarser pitch of the analyzer slots and let me add a newer type of hard drive that would be optimum. Here is a picture of the buss board that everything plugs into...including the plug in main processor board. (picture included also)

That looks an awful lot like a Sun MCA 3000 logic cage. I was under the impression that was a passive 16-bit ISA backplane with an SBC and all the I/O boards on their own ISA cards. Are you sure the slots will not fit standard ISA cards and Sun just had really fat edge connector fingers?
Also being a PC, I would assume you could force it into a PC mode directly rather than lock you completely into the analyzer software. I think when I was researching my MEA I was looking at the 3000 as the higher-end offering and there was both a mode switch on the front and below the floppy drive you got a 5.25" bay (and one person had a CD drive sitting in there!)

 

[dduesing]

It IS a MCA-3000 backplane. I have not figured out why it won't read the floppys or a hard drive that was loose inside the drawer, but am progressing with changing to a different HD and a different HD/floppy contorller card for starters. When I get them installed, I will know more how the "computer" part of the MCA-3000 will work with the SUN I/O boards.

 

[NeXT]

Just to keep this thread on topic with famicomaster2's Kalok drives I'm going to politely ask you make a new thread dedicated to your issue in the IBM PC and Clones section so we can sort out your hardware issues and I'll help you more over there.

 

[dduesing]

Thank you. I am new to the forum and don't want to make waves. Where and how do I access the new thread to continue there? How do I see ALL the postings I have made to all areas of the forum. I put some pictures up along with an introduction to myself, but unsure how to access them.

 

[NeXT]

Click your name below your avatar on the left, then click your name in the pop-up window to be sent to your profile.
Select "latest activity" to see your most recent posts.

...and on that note I see you DID make a thread already. Okay well I'll follow-up in that so you don't need to make another thread.