Poll. What age justifies a computer as vintage?

[alexkerhead]

What age justifies a computer as vintage? Or do certain circumstances and rarity make a computer vintage?
Please vote, if you don't agree with the first 4 answers, then pick other, and then elaborate. If I annoy you, please choose option 6.

 

[kb2syd]

IMHO...
The machine should be at least 10 years old, but it should represent either something unique, revolutionary, or at least obsolete. My aptiva 133 from 1994 would not qualify today. It might in 2016 though, but I doubt it. There were just too many of them. I think of it this way: Will the Dodge K series of cars ever be considered vintage?

 

[Chris2005]

everything that's considerably old enough would be considered vintage at some point. Some things may be more collectible then others though. I hold more to a 20 year rule, with exceptions . F'rinstance, IMHO ALL Amigas are vintage, as are Atari ST's. I recently acquired a Canon Cat, and that doesn't meet the 20 year rule, but heck if that thing ain't a vintage item.
To alot of people, without necessarily knowing it, vintage and collectible means the same thing. Or should I say inherent in the designation of vintage is collectibility. But oldt is oldt .
No, it'll be a long while before a '386 or '486 would be considered vintage, or moreover very collectible. I seem to recall that Windows 95 (maybe the beta) would run on a '386. In some sense then, it's not entirely obsolete (of course I've yet to try running 95 on a '386, and just recently acquired the original stack of disks. Not this week though...

 

[Terry Yager]

I think desirability is more a factor than age or rareness. Some very uncommon itemes are virtually overlooked by collectors, while other very common items are considered 'collectible'. I also make a distinction between 'vintage' and 'classic'. Vintage usually implys a certain old-age-factor, whereas, 'classic' can be of any age, including 'showroom-new', IMHO.

--T

 

[EvanK]

It looks like I'm not the only one who choose "other"... as I said before the original post was removed yesterday, I feel the entire concept of defining 'vintage' purely based on age is itself outdated.

However, we've already (and fairly recently) had the thread on defining vintage, so I won't be redundant here. Use your search buttons.

 

[CP/M User]

Okay, why don't I pose this viewpoint for all to consider...

Some people here have said that some vintage computers may not
necessarily be all that old - yet they are rare.

Some people here reckon my Sanyo Notebook 386 computer isn't
vintage - yet I use vintage software on it. And what would
happen if I just started talking about my TP program which
addresses the Video Card - it's only designed to work for that
card (AFAIK) - so it's something of a rare program, designed
for a Vintage OS.

What would happen if today I started to write a program for
the video card my new computer. It would be unique - cause it
would only work for that line of video cards.

There is a huge demand on Compatability nowadays - cause the
software developers know they need this to make money from
potential customers. Long time ago it was a series of machines
& machines weren't programmed for compatability as much (with
the exception of CP/M) - programs were written for specific
machines & those were programmed to address the hardware.
Nowadays it's mostly compatability which has us stuck in this
line of computers. This has been started mostly thanks for
CP/M - so perhaps CP/M isn't so vintage after all?

The only exception to the rule is CP/M exists on many types of
machines in many different forms & the only reason why it's
considered vintage nowadays - is because it's not typically
being used largely & is considered somewhat critically
endangered on some platforms.

CP/M User.

 

[DoctorPepper]

Call me old fashioned but...

Call me old fashioned but...

I feel true "vintage" microcomputers come from the age from the late 70's through the mid 80's. This was (in my humble opinion) the "golden age" of microcomputers. Once the 80386 came on the scene, that age was basically over.

Ten years from now, I still won't think of a 386 machine as "vintage", but an Atari 800 or TRS-80 Model III will always be!

 

[Chris2005]

any automobile is vintage once it's old enough. I can't think of any exceptions to this rule, though I'm hardly an expert on that subject. Emphasis on old enough. Some are far more collectible then others. 386's may not be very collectible in 10 years either, but we'll need to cross that bridge when we get there. It may take 20+ for instance for them to become truly interesting. The PC was just such a successful platform that anything past the first and second generation is just blah. For now at least. But just go back ten years and tell me how interesting a 5150 PC was? Or a Commodore 64.
I agree that the whole concept of rendering something as classic has to do with the items belonging to a different TIME period, a bygone era. So to say that ditching the age based criteria in favor of some other trumped up standard is assanine. Vintage means aged - period.

 

[Unknown_K]

As far as X86 PC's go I say anything pre 386 is vintage to me. The way the 386 worked with memory made it very different from anything that came before it (more modern and usable).

People have all kinds of parameters for vintage, mine are 10+ years old preferable with a major change in hardware/software capabilities. DOS is vintage where Win 3.1 is marginal and win95 and after is current. I also consider ISA/VLB cards vintage (yes I know pentium 2/3 machines might still have a legacy ISA slot but who used them other then for modems).

 

[CP/M User]

Unknown_K wrote:

> People have all kinds of parameters for vintage, mine
> are 10+ years old preferable with a major change in
> hardware/software capabilities. DOS is vintage where
> Win 3.1 is marginal and win95 and after is current. I
> also consider ISA/VLB cards vintage (yes I know
> pentium 2/3 machines might still have a legacy ISA
> slot but who used them other then for modems).

VLB is something which is found on a couple of my 486
mainboards & considerning you could get a 2Mb Video Card (yes
you could use them for other things besides Modems), it's not
really all that vintage - they are perhaps rarer than your PCI
slots though. I also got some useful ISA in the form of VIdeo
Cards (SVGA at 1Mb) & Sound Cards - even Input/Output cards
for Floppy Disks & Hard Disks. 486 also brought in the 72 pin
Simm Memory cards - as opposed to the 30pin simms found mostly
in 386s (I don't recall seeing a 386 with 72 pin simm memory
card - but by the same tokin a 386DX could handle a lot more
memory than a 386SX. And for the next smuck who calls an IBM
compatable an 8bit - I'll have them know that a 386SX has only
got a 16bit Data lines - yet can handle 386 instructions &
Protected Mode. By your logic of thinking that means a 386SX
should only be classed as an 16bit computer.

CP/M User.

 

[Chris2005]

what about EISA card? To be honest, I have no recollection of the "standard" from back when it was current (lol whenever that was...I can't remember!). I believe the SGI Indigo 2s have these, but little if anything was made available sadly. If anyone is interested in learning more about those and the Indy's and whatnot, try obsolyte.com, siliconbunny.com, and from there you should be well on your way.

 

[Micom 2000]

For what it's worth I have about 10 486 ISA-LB motherboards. Small form-facter. Can't remember who made them.

Lawrence

 

[Terry Yager]

For what it's worth I have about 10 486 ISA-LB motherboards. Small form-facter. Can't remember who made them.

Lawrence

What's ISA-LB? Is that a Ampro LittleBoard form factor (same footprint as a 5.25" floppy drive)?

--T

 

[Micom 2000]

No I was referring to a MB approximately 8"x10" with 6
ISA slots 3 of which have Local Bus extensions. They're all I believe with AMD 486dx2-80 and Amidos BIOS. Also have a bunch of low profile LB controller cards with SP, PP external ports and fdd and HD pins on them. Heat sink and fan on the CPU. Neat board.

Lawrence.

 

[CP/M User]

Micom 2000 wrote:

> No I was referring to a MB approximately 8"x10" with
> 6 ISA slots 3 of which have Local Bus extensions.
> They're all I believe with AMD 486dx2-80 and Amidos
> BIOS. Also have a bunch of low profile LB controller
> cards with SP, PP external ports and fdd and HD pins
> on them. Heat sink and fan on the CPU. Neat board.

For some reason this reminds me of that Z80 computer that had
a mainboard the size of a 3.5" Disk drive. But when I think
about it - a Gameboy is a classic example of a Z80 based
console which incorporates everything. Has anyone managed to
squeeze a 386 into a real small space? It should be possible -
since Notebooks now are quite thin with more power & hardware
beyond dreams imagiable - still they don't seem to require a
floppy disk drive - which takes space.

I'd like to see some old CPU hardware with an old OS
incorporate some of the new stuff. Some DOS programs exist
which allows access to USB Jumpdrives - something with full
USB support in DOS would be cool! ;-)

CP/M User.

 

[Terry Yager]

The smallest (general purpose) Z80-powered machine I have is the PMC MicroMate, a SBC with a footprint about the size of a 5.25" floppy, running CP/M. Smallest DOS/CP/M compatible would be one of the LittleBoards. I have an LB-186, which is DOS only, and an LB-PC, which uses a NEC V40 CPU, so it can run CP/M as well as DOS natively.

--T

 

[canuck46]

Whats Vintage ???

Whats Vintage ???

On a related topic(?) I think a Computer is Vintage (or will be) if it is one that was the first of its kind or one that started a trend. As I am fairly new to the older computers(Vintage?) you guys are better able to talk about it than me. My oldest Computer is a IBM 5150..... which in my mind does or will fall into the Vintage catagory. Theres lots that were before that which were unusual at the time....but caught on. Other Computers that I think(in my humble opinion) will be considered Vintage at some point will be the Eagle PC and Compaq Portables... As for the X86''s ,they were so so heavily mass produced that I dought that they'll ever be considered Vintage although some might fall into the "Unusual" catagory...hense making them collectables.

Dave

 

[CP/M User]

Terry Yager wrote:

> The smallest (general purpose) Z80-powered machine I
> have is the PMC MicroMate, a SBC with a footprint
> about the size of a 5.25" floppy, running CP/M.
> Smallest DOS/CP/M compatible would be one of the
> LittleBoards. I have an LB-186, which is DOS only,
> and an LB-PC, which uses a NEC V40 CPU, so it can run
> CP/M as well as DOS natively.

Just getting back off-topic, surely though, that LB-186 should
be able to handle CP/M-86 since it can handle DOS?

If my XT were working mate - I could assure you it would be
able to take CP/M-86 v1.1 for the IBM PC/XT as well as DOS
natively. Or is this LB-186 real fussy-fussy like?

CP/M User.

 

[alexkerhead]

Canuck46, the Compaq portables are already considered vintage..

 

[CP/M User]

alexkerhead wrote:

> Canuck46, the Compaq portables are already considered
> vintage..

That's the thing though - Compaq portables maybe rare where
you are, a machine maybe more common elsewhere - which
technically speaking my canuck46's logic shouldn't make that
machine vintage.

The number of machines produced don't mean jack - Amstrad PCWs
according to one site is something like 8 million - so
technically speaking it's not vintage based on numbers. Can
you say though that there's 8 million PCWs still in use today?

CP/M User.