Pulling my hair out trying to get an XTIDE Lite v2 going on a Compaq PII

[geekdad]

Nothing I've tried has been successful. I just can't get the PII to detect the XTIDE. There's no Rom address conflict I can find. I've told the PII there's no HD in BIOS, I've tried turning off the WIN dip switch on the Compaq controller board. I know the XTIDE card and CF are good. I can take the card and CF and put it in my T3100e and it boots just fine. So the XTIDE is good. I think I read somewhere the PII doesn't support additional ROM's but I can't seem to find the reference. I CAN get the PII to see a CF card in an IDE to CF adapter off the controller but it won't boot from it. Despite the fact the CF card IS bootable. If I boot from diskette, it sees the CF card on the adapter with no problem. I *really* don't want to do this long term. I have a Flash Floppy I could use, but I'd have to stick a USB in just to boot.

I don't have much hair left and this is seriously diminishing the limited supply I still have...

Any suggestions or resources that show the steps to actually this this going would be most appreciated.

 

[Quagmire]

Try FORMAT C: /MBR then do FORMAT C: /S

 

[geekdad]

Tried that already. If it didn't have an MBR it wouldn't boot in the XTIDE.

 

[modem7]

Nothing I've tried has been successful. I just can't get the PII to detect the XTIDE. There's no Rom address conflict I can find.

So, the XTIDE Universal BIOS (XUB) is not showing on-screen at boot time.

I think I read somewhere the PII doesn't support additional ROM's but I can't seem to find the reference.

I think that you are writing of the original Portable. The XUB is a 'BIOS expansion ROM', and the motherboard BIOS supplied (revision B) in a Compaq Portable does not support BIOS expansion ROM's.

XTIDE Lite v2

Is this the 'Lo-tech XT-CF-lite rev.2' shown at the web page at [here] ?
If not, which card on that page is it.

Any suggestions or resources that show the steps to actually this this going would be most appreciated.

Does the RAYXTIDE tool at [here] find the XUB when the card is in the Portable II ?

 

[Quagmire]

Tried that already. If it didn't have an MBR it wouldn't boot in the XTIDE.

The purpose of doing FORMAT C: /MBR is to clear corruption left over from the OEM. Worth a try - been there done that.

 

[modem7]

The purpose of doing FORMAT C: /MBR is to clear corruption left over from the OEM. Worth a try - been there done that.

The way that post #1 is written, very highly suggests to me that the XUB's splash screen is not showing at boot time.
The contents of the drive's MBR has no impact on whether or not the XUB's splash screen shows at boot time.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

The purpose of doing FORMAT C: /MBR is to clear corruption left over from the OEM. Worth a try - been there done that.

Minor possible correction: did you mean "FDISK /MBR"? (fdisk /mbr rewrites the master boot record without wiping the partitions, it is indeed useful for fixing various issues with drives not booting because they're "confused" by stuff left over in that sector.) "FORMAT C:/S" from a DOS disk will restore/fix the DOS system files in the active partition, which is a different problem.

I CAN get the PII to see a CF card in an IDE to CF adapter off the controller but it won't boot from it. Despite the fact the CF card IS bootable. If I boot from diskette, it sees the CF card on the adapter with no problem. I *really* don't want to do this long term. I have a Flash Floppy I could use, but I'd have to stick a USB in just to boot.

Have you FDISK'ed and formatted the drive in the PII? There are all kinds of annoying issues you can run into with PATA, with BIOSes using incompatible block addressing schemes. This can result in disks not being readable at all when moved between controllers, not being bootable... etc.

Does the RAYXTIDE tool at [here] find the XUB when the card is in the Portable II ?

Just to be completely clear here, this is in fact a "Portable II" we're discussing here, not some Compaq "PII"=="Pentium II" machine from the 90's?

The way that post #1 is written, very highly suggests to me that the XUB's splash screen is not showing at boot time.

If this is a Portable II, are there any other cards with extension ROMs present? If the XUB is sharing a 64K segment with a 16 bit card that could be causing problems.

 

[Quagmire]

Minor possible correction: did you mean "FDISK /MBR"?.

Thanks for the correction. I hate giving out bum dope

 

[MiaM]

The ugly work-around would be to load the XTIDE Universal BIOS from a boot floppy. Once loaded it will afaik allow you to boot from the CF card.

Either way, you could use debug or any similar tool to check if the XTIDE Univesal BIOS seems to be readable at the expected address range in memory. If it is, and the contents seem correct, then the issue is probably that the motherboard BIOS doesn't support option BIOSes. Then you'd have the tough decision on if you want to upgrade to a newer BIOS or live with needing a boot floppy to keep things as factory as possible. If you replace the BIOS, please put the old one in an ESD bag that you tape somewhere inside the computer so it won't get lost.

 

[Zare]

I think I read somewhere the PII doesn't support additional ROM's but I can't seem to find the reference.

You need to verify this for your model. I can see via google, people put EGA/VGA cards in the Portable 2, so their machine must be able to run option ROMs. If you have another graphics card, disk controller, you can try it easily.

 

[geekdad]

So, the XTIDE Universal BIOS (XUB) is not showing on-screen at boot time.


I think that you are writing of the original Portable. The XUB is a 'BIOS expansion ROM', and the motherboard BIOS supplied (revision B) in a Compaq Portable does not support BIOS expansion ROM's.


Is this the 'Lo-tech XT-CF-lite rev.2' shown at the web page at [here] ?
If not, which card on that page is it.


Does the RAYXTIDE tool at [here] find the XUB when the card is in the Portable II ?

Correct, the XUB doesn't show up on boot.

You're correct on the Portable I not doing boot ROMS. I do have a Portable Plus with the XTIDE and it works just fine.

Yes, I'm using the XT-CF-Lite V2 from TexElec.

RAYXTIDE can't see the card either.

 

[geekdad]

Minor possible correction: did you mean "FDISK /MBR"? (fdisk /mbr rewrites the master boot record without wiping the partitions, it is indeed useful for fixing various issues with drives not booting because they're "confused" by stuff left over in that sector.) "FORMAT C:/S" from a DOS disk will restore/fix the DOS system files in the active partition, which is a different problem.

One thing I've noticed is even if I use a plain IDE to CF adapter, and let the Portable try and boot from the CF it comes up "Missing Operating System."

Have you FDISK'ed and formatted the drive in the PII? There are all kinds of annoying issues you can run into with PATA, with BIOSes using incompatible block addressing schemes. This can result in disks not being readable at all when moved between controllers, not being bootable... etc.

I've tried the FDISK /MBR. No luck. The card is a Transcend Industrial and designed to be bootable out the box. And yes, I've done the FDISK and Format from the Portable itself after booting from diskette.

Just to be completely clear here, this is in fact a "Portable II" we're discussing here, not some Compaq "PII"=="Pentium II" machine from the 90's?

Yep Compaq Portable II.

If this is a Portable II, are there any other cards with extension ROMs present? If the XUB is sharing a 64K segment with a 16 bit card that could be causing problems.

No other cards other than the Compaq Multi-function card (HD, Floppy, Serial and Printer) and the Video card.

 

[geekdad]

So, the XTIDE Universal BIOS (XUB) is not showing on-screen at boot time.


I think that you are writing of the original Portable. The XUB is a 'BIOS expansion ROM', and the motherboard BIOS supplied (revision B) in a Compaq Portable does not support BIOS expansion ROM's.


Is this the 'Lo-tech XT-CF-lite rev.2' shown at the web page at [here] ?
If not, which card on that page is it.


Does the RAYXTIDE tool at [here] find the XUB when the card is in the Portable II ?

You need to verify this for your model. I can see via google, people put EGA/VGA cards in the Portable 2, so their machine must be able to run option ROMs. If you have another graphics card, disk controller, you can try it easily.

It was the original Portable I that didn't as pointed out by Modem7.

 

[geekdad]

The ugly work-around would be to load the XTIDE Universal BIOS from a boot floppy. Once loaded it will afaik allow you to boot from the CF card.

Either way, you could use debug or any similar tool to check if the XTIDE Univesal BIOS seems to be readable at the expected address range in memory. If it is, and the contents seem correct, then the issue is probably that the motherboard BIOS doesn't support option BIOSes. Then you'd have the tough decision on if you want to upgrade to a newer BIOS or live with needing a boot floppy to keep things as factory as possible. If you replace the BIOS, please put the old one in an ESD bag that you tape somewhere inside the computer so it won't get lost.

It's running BIOS version G so fairly new for the time period.

 

[geekdad]

You need to verify this for your model. I can see via google, people put EGA/VGA cards in the Portable 2, so their machine must be able to run option ROMs. If you have another graphics card, disk controller, you can try it easily.

There's two cards in the machine. The Mutlifunction Controller card, and the Video card which I can't replace since it's required for the internal monochrome monitor.

 

[geekdad]

The way that post #1 is written, very highly suggests to me that the XUB's splash screen is not showing at boot time.
The contents of the drive's MBR has no impact on whether or not the XUB's splash screen shows at boot time.

Correct, no splash screen...

 

[modem7]

RAYXTIDE can't see the card either.

So the RAYXTIDE tool cannot find the XUB in memory space, and this for a known-working XT-CF card. That certainly explains the 'no XUB splash screen' symptom.

These cards are basically two functionalities on one card, per the diagram at [here]. The 'IDE interface' functionality has nothing to do with the symptom. It is the 'BIOS ROM circuitry' functionality that is being impacted.

Putting it all together, it really does sound like a conflict is going on.

You earlier wrote, "There's no Rom address conflict I can find." Did that include removing jumper #1 on the card so that the BIOS ROM starts at address D8000 (a.k.a. D800) rather than the default of C8000 ?


If the answer to that question is yes, then with the card configured so that the BIOS ROM starts at address C8000, use DEBUG to show us what is starting at address C8000. That might inform us of what is in conflict. There is a DEBUG example shown at [here] for address D0000. You would instead use the command of "d c800:0".

 

[MiaM]

It's running BIOS version G so fairly new for the time period.

I don't know any details about this computer in particular, but if it doesn't need any machine specific initialization code (or other machine specific code, like pressing certain keys to switch the video between built in / external display, Hercules or CGA emulation or whatnot) then you could use a BIOS meant for another XT class PC. (That was also a way back in the days to get rid of the extremely slow startup on an original IBM PC/XT).
To make it at least be somewhat "correct" you could go for the BIOS from a newer Compaq that is as similar to this one as possible.

The other option would be to modify the existing BIOS. Requires knowledge of x86 assembler (and also how add-on BIOSes work, but that is the small part as compared to x86 assembler).

 

[Eudimorphodon]

I've tried the FDISK /MBR. No luck. The card is a Transcend Industrial and designed to be bootable out the box. And yes, I've done the FDISK and Format from the Portable itself after booting from diskette.

Just for completeness sake, have you tried completely zero-ing the start of card before trying to format it in the Compaq? Like doing something like “dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd(whatever) bs=1k count=10000” with a Linux box? That sometimes fixes stubborn problems with “I can see it but can’t boot it”. Something about old BIOSes getting confused by bytes that are set from formatting the card with newer OSes and not zeroed when DOS tools touch the MBR.

 

[geekdad]

So the RAYXTIDE tool cannot find the XUB in memory space, and this for a known-working XT-CF card. That certainly explains the 'no XUB splash screen' symptom.

These cards are basically two functionalities on one card, per the diagram at [here]. The 'IDE interface' functionality has nothing to do with the symptom. It is the 'BIOS ROM circuitry' functionality that is being impacted.

Putting it all together, it really does sound like a conflict is going on.

You earlier wrote, "There's no Rom address conflict I can find." Did that include removing jumper #1 on the card so that the BIOS ROM starts at address D8000 (a.k.a. D800) rather than the default of C8000 ?
View attachment 1309456

If the answer to that question is yes, then with the card configured so that the BIOS ROM starts at address C8000, use DEBUG to show us what is starting at address C8000. That might inform us of what is in conflict. There is a DEBUG example shown at [here] for address D0000. You would instead use the command of "d c800:0".

Here's what Debug is reporting. Nothing in those ROM ranges.